(Java success = Smalltalk death) or:[ Java + Smalltalk = Future ] 
Author Message
 (Java success = Smalltalk death) or:[ Java + Smalltalk = Future ]

I don't know why people must ramble on and on about Java causing some sort
of death to Smalltalk.  It ain't gonna happen.  Sure, Java may catch on,
sure there might be six million Java beans and silly toys available, but
these junior OO Java developers in diapers are just beginning to understand
OO technology, and it will be a long time before we start seeing really high
quality OO frameworks and designs come out of Java code, and on top of that,
it might never happen.  But why does that matter?

The marriage between Smalltalk and Java will be a good thing.  Smalltalk
will be able to easily take advantage of using Java libraries and beans.
Smalltalk should not compete with Java, but augment it.  Smalltalk should
also try to augment just about everything else out there too, be it Basic,
fortran, C++, COBOL, PL/1, Pascal, Lisp, Eiffel or Java!  Nobody will really
be productive in Java, but yet we'll all still need to use Java for the odd
silly poorly written tool we want to drop in.  It makes no difference what
language it's written in!  In my Smalltalk app I use C++ libraries and other
external tools, but the marriage isn't easy!  Still, it's what's required to
get the job done.  Legacy support is probably the most important factor in
any language, period!

Eventually, the Smalltalk price is going to drop, and the Java tools price
is definately going to climb.  I think they're all loosing money at this
point.  Then things will stabalize out, and while Java frameworks will be
available, we'll all still be coding in Smalltalk, maybe even with a little
embedded Java.  Java programmers will be revving up their code, increasing
their productivity, expanding their horizons, by adding a little Smalltalk
into the mix.

Saying Smalltalk can't be married with Java is like saying Smalltalk can't
be married with Win32.  And it's a helluva lot harder to marry the latter.
I look forward to tools that will allow me to take advantage of a number of
cheap, reusable, possibly poorly designed tools, and combine them with a
high quality toolset and language that increases my productivity.

In a sense, Java is legacy support, because eventually it may be superceded
by Smalltalk, or Self, or some other language, even though it is new and a
lot of development money is being thrown at it.

Java may get more use in becoming a more common denominator, especially due
to it's great portability.  This doesn't mean that Smalltalk won't be mixed
in with Java, or that others aren't going to step up from Java alone to
Smalltalk + Java as a generalized enhancement.

Ian

                    Java, the 100% pure hype initiative
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.*-*-*.com/



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 (Java success = Smalltalk death) or:[ Java + Smalltalk = Future ]

Quote:

> I don't know why people must ramble on and on about Java causing some sort
> of death to Smalltalk.  It ain't gonna happen.  Sure, Java may catch on,
> sure there might be six million Java beans and silly toys available, but
> these junior OO Java developers in diapers are just beginning to understand
> OO technology, and it will be a long time before we start seeing really high
> quality OO frameworks and designs come out of Java code, and on top of that,
> it might never happen.  But why does that matter?

> The marriage between Smalltalk and Java will be a good thing.  Smalltalk
> will be able to easily take advantage of using Java libraries and beans.
> Smalltalk should not compete with Java, but augment it.  Smalltalk should
> also try to augment just about everything else out there too, be it Basic,
> Fortran, C++, COBOL, PL/1, Pascal, Lisp, Eiffel or Java!  Nobody will really
> be productive in Java, but yet we'll all still need to use Java for the odd
> silly poorly written tool we want to drop in.  It makes no difference what
> language it's written in!  In my Smalltalk app I use C++ libraries and other
> external tools, but the marriage isn't easy!  Still, it's what's required to
> get the job done.  Legacy support is probably the most important factor in
> any language, period!

Well said Ian !

By the way, how did you access your C++ libraries from Smalltalk.
At least for  Visualworks this seems to be rather difficult.
The only portable way to do that seems to be to wrap the C++ code into
C-functions :-(

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Eventually, the Smalltalk price is going to drop, and the Java tools price
> is definately going to climb.  I think they're all loosing money at this
> point.  Then things will stabalize out, and while Java frameworks will be
> available, we'll all still be coding in Smalltalk, maybe even with a little
> embedded Java.  Java programmers will be revving up their code, increasing
> their productivity, expanding their horizons, by adding a little Smalltalk
> into the mix.

> Saying Smalltalk can't be married with Java is like saying Smalltalk can't
> be married with Win32.  And it's a helluva lot harder to marry the latter.
> I look forward to tools that will allow me to take advantage of a number of
> cheap, reusable, possibly poorly designed tools, and combine them with a
> high quality toolset and language that increases my productivity.

> In a sense, Java is legacy support, because eventually it may be superceded
> by Smalltalk, or Self, or some other language, even though it is new and a
> lot of development money is being thrown at it.

> Java may get more use in becoming a more common denominator, especially due
> to it's great portability.  This doesn't mean that Smalltalk won't be mixed
> in with Java, or that others aren't going to step up from Java alone to
> Smalltalk + Java as a generalized enhancement.

> Ian

>                     Java, the 100% pure hype initiative

Again,well said ...

Greetings,
Markus

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Markus Kohler                          Hewlett-Packard
GmbH                |
| Software Engineer                      OpenView Software
Division          |
|                                        IT/E Response
Team                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 2 post ] 

 Relevant Pages 

1. Smalltalk and Java (was death 'o smalltalk)

2. Smalltalk Manifesto Update - future of Smalltalk, C++, Java

3. Hello Smalltalk, bye bye Java (was Sprint: Hello Java, bye bye Smalltalk)

4. Smalltalk future vs Java

5. Smalltalk vs Java, OBJS says Java wins.

6. Bjarne Stroustrup mentions Smalltalk (was java book author mentions Smalltalk)

7. Smalltalk Solutions: Running Java in Smalltalk

8. Smalltalk and components (was: Sprint: Hello Java, bye bye Smalltalk)

9. Smalltalk or Java ? - smalltalk after all

10. Smalltalk-like or Smalltalk-based Java IDE interface?

11. "Smalltalk-VA Smalltalk-Java, CO"

12. Bloated GUI's will be the death of Java

 

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software