Dolphin 6 in sight? 
Author Message
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Hi...

just wondering if there is any news on Dolphin6 availability?

(it is not that I am not happy with D5.1 anymore, but one is getting kind of
curious... :-)

Ciao

...Jochen



Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:23:13 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> just wondering if there is any news on Dolphin6 availability?

> (it is not that I am not happy with D5.1 anymore, but one is getting kind of
> curious... :-)

And then there are those of us wondering if D5 will ever be finished
(i.e. wondering if the docs will ever materialize).

--
Howard Ding



Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:26:53 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:
> And then there are those of us wondering if D5 will ever be finished
> (i.e. wondering if the docs will ever materialize).

Well, I don't care so much about the docs anymore if I get D6 sooner :-).
For new users however, updated EducationCenter for D6 would be very
important to get with or soon after release, within 2 months being a maximum
IMO..

A good compilation of all the great advices from this group with a
comprehensive index (a kind of Cookbook) would be a great help for both
newbies and advanced I think.

Ciao

...Jochen



Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:00:34 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

>> And then there are those of us wondering if D5 will ever be finished
>> (i.e. wondering if the docs will ever materialize).

> Well, I don't care so much about the docs anymore if I get D6 sooner :-).
> For new users however, updated EducationCenter for D6 would be very
> important to get with or soon after release, within 2 months being a maximum
> IMO..

Obviously it's a little late in the cycle for there to be too much
worry about the D5 docs, but certainly I (no matter how much I like
Dolphin) feel at least a little cheated because they've never come.

--
Howard Ding



Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:02:39 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> Obviously it's a little late in the cycle for there to be too much
> worry about the D5 docs, but certainly I (no matter how much I like
> Dolphin) feel at least a little cheated because they've never come.

There's a lot of class-comments within the image. I assume it
would be relatively easy to create a script that prints them
all out in alphabetical order, with added information about
the superclass/subclass relations and public methods.

Further information might be to list all references to Globals
a given class makes and vice versa, to show possible uses of
each class.

So, how to do the above would be the kind of seed-documentation
I would most appreciate, and it might be the cheapest way
to produce useful documentation fast.

-Panu Viljamaa



Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:30:29 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> There's a lot of class-comments within the image. I assume it
> would be relatively easy to create a script that prints them
> all out in alphabetical order

Ok, I did a fast experiment with the script below in D4.
The main shortcoming of this short script I think is that
it does not separate classes in different packages.

Naturally a hypertext implementation would need to
have hyperlinks to classes in other packages when
displaying a link to the superclasses:

  Object  allSubclasses do:
  [:ec | Transcript show: ec name

; show: ' < '
; show: ec superclass name
; show: ' < '
; show: ec superclass superclass name
; show: '

'
; show: ec comment
; cr
; show: '====================================
'
  ]

Quote:
> -Panu Viljamaa



Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:48:27 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?
I am not shure, but I think I read something from Blair or Andy quite a
while ago that this is exactly what they are working on.

Ciao

...Jochen



Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:48:42 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?
Hello all,

Quote:
> > There's a lot of class-comments within the image. I assume it
> > would be relatively easy to create a script that prints them
> > all out in alphabetical order

Have a look at the DSDN search options; I think you'll find it can take you
to pretty much anything in the image, as well as Ian's archives.

Have a good one,

Bill

--
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.



Mon, 27 Feb 2006 02:06:51 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> There's a lot of class-comments within the image. I assume it
> would be relatively easy to create a script that prints them
> all out in alphabetical order, with added information about
> the superclass/subclass relations and public methods.

I did something very similar in the early 90s for Smalltalk/V - wrote a
class that read the image and output all classes and their comments and all
method names and their comments to a text file, which I then ran through
some macros in MSWord to turn all the class names into topics and index all
the method names when compiled into a Windows HLP file. I then added some
code to the class hierarchy browser that would position you at the help
topic for a class when you hit F1 while browsing that class.

I believe the help file may now be part of STExpress, which is the final
incarnation of Smalltalk/V.

Nick



Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:45:37 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> I did something very similar in the early 90s for Smalltalk/V - wrote a
> class that read the image and output all classes and their comments and all
> method names and their comments to a text file  ...

Cool. Dolphin has the added benefit of a built-in
class-comment attribute, as well as a built-in
package-comment.

Additionally it seems that in Dolphin a reasonable
amount of classes actually do have class-comments,
although not all.

I do like the Windows help format, since it has
index and search. Something similar could be
created as HTML as well.

-Panu Viljamaa



Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:10:54 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?
panu, Nick, et al,

I'm having difficulty seeing what the point of this is.  After all, what's so
hard about firing up a CHB and looking at the comments in that ?

    -- chris



Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:22:40 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> I'm having difficulty seeing what the point of this is.  After all, what's so
> hard about firing up a CHB and looking at the comments in that ?

The point is about extracting the documentation
into a single document which you can read on
one go, and perhaps print on paper.

CHB was not designed mainly for reading. It was
designed for reading /and/ writing, really for
'programming'. When you click on a class or package,
it doesn't automatically show you the comment-section.
And when you click on the comment-tab, you will see
the comment in a section that is only half a window high.

It's a matter of preference, but personally
I like the 'single document' -approach for
learning about a system, at least in the initial
'discovery' phase.

-Panu Viljamaa



Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:35:22 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?
+1



Quote:

> > I'm having difficulty seeing what the point of this is.  After all,
what's so
> > hard about firing up a CHB and looking at the comments in that ?

> The point is about extracting the documentation
> into a single document which you can read on
> one go, and perhaps print on paper.

> CHB was not designed mainly for reading. It was
> designed for reading /and/ writing, really for
> 'programming'. When you click on a class or package,
> it doesn't automatically show you the comment-section.
> And when you click on the comment-tab, you will see
> the comment in a section that is only half a window high.

> It's a matter of preference, but personally
> I like the 'single document' -approach for
> learning about a system, at least in the initial
> 'discovery' phase.

> -Panu Viljamaa



Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:13:50 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:

> > I'm having difficulty seeing what the point of this is.  After all,
> > what's so hard about firing up a CHB and looking at the comments in
> > that ?

> The point is about extracting the documentation
> into a single document which you can read on
> one go, and perhaps print on paper.

Paper?  PAPER?!  Get yourself a laptop, man!

;-)

Seriously; if the CHB is less than ideal for browsing the comments then maybe
it should be improved. Even a minor change like making the class comment the
"default" tab (instead the class def, which is rarely informative), would help.
(I suggested that years ago)  Also the Package Browser shouldn't hide the
package comment away on the very last tab as if it were an afterthought...

Perhaps too, there could be an easy way to see class comments from the Package
Browser without having to fire up an entire CHB to see them ?  Or --
alternatively -- a way to see package comments from the System Browser ?

    -- chris



Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:14:42 GMT  
 Dolphin 6 in sight?

Quote:


>> > I'm having difficulty seeing what the point of this is.  After all,
>> > what's so hard about firing up a CHB and looking at the comments in
>> > that ?

>> The point is about extracting the documentation
>> into a single document which you can read on
>> one go, and perhaps print on paper.

> Paper?  PAPER?!  Get yourself a laptop, man!

> ;-)

> Seriously; if the CHB is less than ideal for browsing the comments then
> maybe it should be improved. Even a minor change like making the class
> comment the "default" tab (instead the class def, which is rarely
> informative), would help.
> (I suggested that years ago)  Also the Package Browser shouldn't hide the
> package comment away on the very last tab as if it were an afterthought...

> Perhaps too, there could be an easy way to see class comments from the
> Package
> Browser without having to fire up an entire CHB to see them ?  Or --
> alternatively -- a way to see package comments from the System Browser ?

>     -- chris

For me this is just a advantage of a Smalltalk system over non-image-based
systems. But it is not a replacement for real documentation. From this I
expect more: introductions, overviews, and concepts!
The class comments are IMO not enough, even a printed extract of them are
only a neat addition. Especially beginners are left alone without
introductions and overviews!

Andreas
(Still waiting for proposed Dolphin XP documentation!)



Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:25:08 GMT  
 
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