ok enough 
Author Message
 ok enough

all right, im not news net junkie, and quite frankly, dont put myself in
positions to
be reliant on them, i do however, scan them on occasion, and look at things
that catch my mind as being somewhat interesting. What i dont like to see with
these   usenet news groups are people like you, who have your own heads stuck
so far inside your own lives, that when you do take time out to look at someone
elses inquiry, you immediatly stereotype it and proceed to attack with your so
called "netiquette". maybe you have forgotton, but most of you were probably in
this lads position at one time, and would have shamelessly asked for tips on
coding, but you in all your "expertise" rank your selves so high above others,
i am surprised there are not as many news group gangs as there are. next time,
use your head, and what is left of your heart, and be a little nicer.



Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:51:32 GMT  
 ok enough
I agree.

Yes, we should not help those who do not do their own work,
but perhaps we can be nicer to those who are new to this newsgroup.

Unlike other chatrooms or web-based discussion groups,
there is no official _first time_ "Must-Read" or "User Agreement" pages
to this newsgroup.

(Please do not point me to  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/  ::::: No one is
supposed
to have gone through that page _before_ one's first visit to this
newsgroup.)

Therefore, we should not blame those who broke the rules on the FIRST time
they post messages. We can just point out to them politely, without using
DEROGATORY words or meanings.
(sadly, I have seen at least one of the high-rank professionals doing this
more than once)

The reason I emphasize on the "FIRST" is that this is a very special
experience to
these new users. I remembered that, the first time I post to a newsgroup, I
do not
know what to include in my post. I can either post a very simple question
with
no background information at all, or provide every single detail of the
quetion to
the point that people takes hours to read my first post. Note that, for a
new user,
This is just a Matter of Choice. By using derogatory words or replies, we
effectively
frighten away potential new readers of this newsgroup.

Even if the new user has committed an unforgivable mistake, I suggest that a
word of
encouragement (to use this newsgroup) , along with the mistake to be pointed
out,
be included in the reply - so as not to frighten new users away.

After all, there is no point in limiting USENET services to a few elite
users, right?



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough

Quote:

> Therefore, we should not blame those who broke the rules on the FIRST >time
> they post messages. We can just point out to them politely, without using
> DEROGATORY words or meanings.
> (sadly, I have seen at least one of the high-rank professionals doing this
> more than once)

We should maybe criticise less, and directly refer to the faq/nettiquete
sections as must read, without much further ado, or not reply at all.

Also I would like some more discipline about spam. Don't reply to it,
try to find his ISP, and send an abuse msg, and if uses public websites
like
fortunecity, close them down. This because I quite often see flames on
spam, while the original spam already has been cancelled by the bots.
---

In general I'm still in this group to see interesting new things, and
not to support newbies. I have no problem answering problems of newbies,
but I rather save my time for the ones that ask questions that need
human explaining rather than answer the divby0 bug for the zillionth
time.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Quote:
> I agree.

So do I.

Quote:

> Yes, we should not help those who do not do their own work,

Maybe emphasise that those people should show their attempt - include
some of the problem code.

Quote:
> but perhaps we can be nicer to those who are new to this newsgroup.

> Unlike other chatrooms or web-based discussion groups,
> there is no official _first time_ "Must-Read" or "User Agreement"
pages
> to this newsgroup.

How about including a few lines in the FAQ outlining the do's and
don'ts?

Quote:

> (Please do not point me to  http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/  ::::: No
one is
> supposed
> to have gone through that page _before_ one's first visit to this
> newsgroup.)

> Therefore, we should not blame those who broke the rules on the FIRST
time
> they post messages. We can just point out to them politely, without
using
> DEROGATORY words or meanings.
> (sadly, I have seen at least one of the high-rank professionals doing
this
> more than once)

Yes, I have seen some "high-rank" individuals even using personal-level
insults, especially against newbies.

And what is the idea behind "high-rank"? We're all here for the same
reason, we want to help or be helped with programming. Just because
someone might have more experience in it, it shouldn't mean they think
they are "all-powerful".

Quote:

> The reason I emphasize on the "FIRST" is that this is a very special
> experience to
> these new users. I remembered that, the first time I post to a
newsgroup, I
> do not
> know what to include in my post. I can either post a very simple
question
> with
> no background information at all, or provide every single detail of
the
> quetion to
> the point that people takes hours to read my first post. Note that,
for a
> new user,
> This is just a Matter of Choice. By using derogatory words or
replies, we
> effectively
> frighten away potential new readers of this newsgroup.

> Even if the new user has committed an unforgivable mistake, I suggest
that a
> word of
> encouragement (to use this newsgroup) , along with the mistake to be
pointed
> out,
> be included in the reply - so as not to frighten new users away.

> After all, there is no point in limiting USENET services to a few
elite
> users, right?

--

Faculty Of Science, University Of Liverpool
http://www.liv.ac.uk

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough
Is it possible to ask Deja to host a
"please read this before you write" page, so that
everyone who want to post messages here from Deja
will be able to learn the customs of this newsgroup?

Besides, we can include a brief description of this newsgroup,
such as examples of questions anticipated, and a link to the
famous Turbo Pascal FAQ, as well as some useful pages.

All these depends on the opinion of Deja.
Has anyone talked to Deja about this idea? What is their
opinion?



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Quote:

>> Unlike other chatrooms or web-based discussion groups,
>> there is no official _first time_ "Must-Read" or "User Agreement"
>pages
>> to this newsgroup.
>How about including a few lines in the FAQ outlining the do's and
>don'ts?

How about following your own implicit advice, and reading the mini-FAQ?
Such matters are not appropriate for Timo's Pascal FAQ, are covered
somewhere else in general news FAQs, and are specifically mentioned in
the mini-FAQ of this newsgroup, which is frequently posted and cited.

--

 <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/&c., FAQqy topics & links;
 <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/clpb-faq.txt> Pedt Scragg: c.l.p.b. mFAQ;
 <URL: ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/link/tsfaqp.zip> Timo Salmi's Turbo Pascal FAQ.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough


Quote:
> Is it possible to ask Deja to host a
> "please read this before you write" page, so that
> everyone who want to post messages here from Deja
> will be able to learn the customs of this newsgroup?

Good idea - have it for every newsgroup - some general netiquette which
would apply to any newsgroup such as read the FAQ, "please reply by
email" etc.

Quote:

> Besides, we can include a brief description of this newsgroup,
> such as examples of questions anticipated, and a link to the
> famous Turbo Pascal FAQ, as well as some useful pages.

> All these depends on the opinion of Deja.
> Has anyone talked to Deja about this idea? What is their
> opinion?

I've not talked to (well, emailed) Deja about this, but I have about
other things, like shortening their add-on to sigs, and they have been
generally unhelpful! I could have another try though.

--

Faculty Of Science, University Of Liverpool
http://www.liv.ac.uk

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 ok enough

Quote:



>> Is it possible to ask Deja to host a
>> "please read this before you write" page, so that
>> everyone who want to post messages here from Deja
>> will be able to learn the customs of this newsgroup?
> Good idea - have it for every newsgroup - some general netiquette which
> would apply to any newsgroup such as read the FAQ, "please reply by
> email" etc.

I think you'll find this does exist; look in news.announce.newusers.
This is the official "Welcome to Usenet" group.

--
______________________________________________________________________
     The Scarlet Manuka,      |        Nitpickers' Party motto:
  Pratchett Quoter At Large,  |  "He who guards his lips guards his
 First Prophet of Bonni, is:  |  soul, but he who speaks rashly will

______________________________|_______________________________________



Sat, 22 Mar 2003 09:57:10 GMT  
 
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