CD-Oberon - Oberon/F 
Author Message
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Can anyone direct me to any documentation that may be downloaded and
added to the CD's on-line document section on Oberon/F.


Sun, 14 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

> Can anyone direct me to any documentation that may be downloaded and
> added to the CD's on-line document section on Oberon/F.

Oberon/F is now called "BlackBox Component Builder".

   <http://www.oberon.ch/prod/blackbox/index.html>

/Jon



Mon, 15 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

>Oberon/F is now called "BlackBox Component Builder".

>   <http://www.oberon.ch/prod/blackbox/index.html>

In the case that Ronald refered the old 16-bit version of BlackBox, called
Oberon/F, here is the link:
ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/Oberon/OberonF/

Oberon/F is a 16-bit environment. The language is Oberon-2 (not Component
Pascal). That makes it closer to the classic Oberons. It might be
interesting to put it on the CD.

Anes Sadikovic



Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:


> >Oberon/F is now called "BlackBox Component Builder".

> >   <http://www.oberon.ch/prod/blackbox/index.html>

> In the case that Ronald refered the old 16-bit version
> of BlackBox, called Oberon/F, here is the link:
> ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/Oberon/OberonF/

> Oberon/F is a 16-bit environment. The language is Oberon-2
> (not Component Pascal). That makes it closer to the classic
> Oberons. It might be interesting to put it on the CD.

> Anes Sadikovic

sorry to correct you.

1. Oberon/F is 32bit. It was never 16bit although it runs
   (as BlackBox does on Win 3.x, but it needs the Win32s
   extensions.

2. The current version of BlackBox (1.3.2) icludes an
   (standard ?) Oberon-2 compiler, although the data
   sizes differ (compared to most other Oberon-2)
   implementations. Oberon/F had the same data sizes
   as other Oberons.

3. BlackBox is free for non-profit use.

4. Oberon/F still sits on some servers (e.g. eth).

5. Both run on Macs and PCs with the native look &
   feel of the operating system but are source
   compatible to each other.

It would be worth to put all of it ((Mac, Win) x (Oberon/F, BlackBox))
on the CD (given Oberon Microsystems
agree).

--
    Bernhard Treutwein             Tel. +49-89-5996-642, Fax -615
    Institut f. Med. Psychologie  Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet

    --------------------------------  ---------------------------



Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

> Can anyone direct me to any documentation that may be downloaded and
> added to the CD's on-line document section on Oberon/F.

In addition to the pointers others have given you should also
look at Guy Laden's Blackbox site.

http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~guy/BlackBox/

You'll find documentation there, a mailing list archive, and
pointers to quite a bit of sample code (including an expert
system shell written by yours truly.  *s* )

Which reminds me, Guy, if your reading this, there's a slight
problem with the link.  It points to documentation for the
expert system, but not the code itself.  The code is at :

http://www.cis.uab.edu/info/grads/jmd/expert.zip

I'm probably going to mirror or move this site eventually
as it's hard for me to keep that site updated these days.
(Long story)

Oh, and Guy's general Oberon site has a lot of cool stuff
on it too.

http://www.math.tau.ac.il/~guy/Oberon/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F


Quote:
>1. Oberon/F is 32bit. It was never 16bit although it runs
>   (as BlackBox does on Win 3.x, but it needs the Win32s
>   extensions.

Thanks for correcting me. I've pu a misleading post. Only sizes of INTEGER,
etc. were 16 bits instead of 32.

Quote:

>2. The current version of BlackBox (1.3.2) icludes an
>   (standard ?) Oberon-2 compiler, although the data
>   sizes differ (compared to most other Oberon-2)
>   implementations. Oberon/F had the same data sizes
>   as other Oberons.

The BlackBox documentation does not refer to this (standard?) Oberon-2
compiler at all. I've learned about it from an announcment. If I missed the
annoouncemtn, I would not have known about it at all. It would not be a bad
idea to mention it on the CD.

Quote:

>3. BlackBox is free for non-profit use.

>4. Oberon/F still sits on some servers (e.g. eth).

>5. Both run on Macs and PCs with the native look &
>   feel of the operating system but are source
>   compatible to each other.

>It would be worth to put all of it ((Mac, Win) x (Oberon/F, BlackBox))
>on the CD (given Oberon Microsystems
>agree).

Let's hope they'll agree. BB is a wonderful product. Too bad that so little
people know about it. If only, they had a Linux version ...
Quote:

>--
>    Bernhard Treutwein             Tel. +49-89-5996-642, Fax -615
>    Institut f. Med. Psychologie  Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet

>    --------------------------------  ---------------------------



Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

> >It would be worth to put all of it ((Mac, Win) x (Oberon/F, BlackBox))
> >on the CD (given Oberon Microsystems
> >agree).

> Let's hope they'll agree. BB is a wonderful product. Too bad that so little
> people know about it. If only, they had a Linux version ...

I doubt that it would make a big market impact if their Windows version
hasn't already.  Linux and other OSes are a very small piece of the pie.

Of course, I'll put in my wish too that they port to the BeOS.  It has very
few high-level languages available and a lot of people frustrated with C++.

Michael Griebling



Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F
Michael,
   I will agree with you that compaired to MS Windows is a smaller
piece of the pie. It still is a very large piece. The last update
I had read sees it at about 20-30 million installations.
   Now for my 2 cents... Every language & even OS has it place
( Until someone finds more for it :) ). Oberon has capabilities
that go well beyond other OS's. Lately to be an evangilist I have
purposely created traps under Oberon to show of it's stuff. Now
what happens under Windoz when you Blue Screen.
   Let also give you alittle background of myself. I have been in
programming as a contract programmer since about 1980. I have worked
with languages and OS's such as Forth, Assembler( 6502 68xxx Z80 Z8000
All Intel ...) Pascal, Modula, Delphi ... TR-DOS, C, C++,
Apple DOS, CPM, MS-DOS, PC-DOS, Linux, OS/2, Windows 1.0 - NT (Enough
Already :) ). Basically whatever a project would require I would use it.
Now a days I use C, C++, Borland MS.
Of all the above I have found Oberon as a language to be very
functional and it's code production can be very compact. As for
OO, for a C/C++ it takes a little getting use to, but after that
it's pure fun. As shown by POW an Oberon compiler can make use of
Windoz DLL. So when you sum it up ( In my opinion ) Oberon is a
very viable language in todays technology.
   The OS on the other transcends most. I had contracted to IBM for
about 10 years. I worked on projects such as their PDA, OS/2. Oberon
for a PDA would be a very good fit. OS/2 was one of the beast designed
OS's I have ever worked on. But for it's size and design Oberon is
most elegant. It can be understood by a mere mortal.
   As for your statement about impact, Oberon in my opinion was not
presented to the world in a right manner. I am going to dedicate as
much effort as I see response to changing that.
   Hence "Straw Hat CD-Oberon". Besides having as much info as I
could find and have support for as many platforms as possible. I think
like UNIX, Oberon must be mainstreamed into the acedemic world. This
system is perfect for teaching general programming and OO concepts.
   Anyhow I am not going to use up BandWidth here. But if a programmer
as myself can see the value in Oberon then I am sure others will too.
Windoz and Linux is still not enough choices out there, maybe we need
one more.

        Ron

P.S. Excuse the spelling and grammar errors. I am trying to master
     a CD :)

Quote:


> > >It would be worth to put all of it ((Mac, Win) x (Oberon/F, BlackBox))
> > >on the CD (given Oberon Microsystems
> > >agree).

> > Let's hope they'll agree. BB is a wonderful product. Too bad that so little
> > people know about it. If only, they had a Linux version ...

> I doubt that it would make a big market impact if their Windows version
> hasn't already.  Linux and other OSes are a very small piece of the pie.

> Of course, I'll put in my wish too that they port to the BeOS.  It has very
> few high-level languages available and a lot of people frustrated with C++.

> Michael Griebling



Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

> Michael,
>    I will agree with you that compaired to MS Windows is a smaller
> piece of the pie. It still is a very large piece. The last update
> I had read sees it at about 20-30 million installations.

I didn't get the impression that Michael was discounting Linux or
Oberon for Linux for that matter, but questioning whether a Linux
version of BlackBox would have a big commercial impact.  Oberon
Microsystems would have to be convinced of the value of porting
to Linux before they'll do that, and so far they've said that it
wouldn't be worth it for them.

Of course although Linux is a smaller market than Windows, it's
also less crowded.  As far as I know there isn't a PowerBuilder,
Visual Basic or Delphi for Linux.  A cross platform system that
let you rapid develop simultaneously for Windows, Mac and Linux
could be a real killer-app.  (Oh and BeOS.  :-) )

One word of caution though.  Much of the custom Windows software
development that was once dominated by Visual Basic is now shifting
to Interdev and DHTML.  MicroSoft is fighting hard to dominate
that market too.  Oberon needs to make advances in web-centric

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F


Quote:
> Of course, I'll put in my wish too that they port to the BeOS.  It
has very
> few high-level languages available and a lot of people frustrated
with C++.

> Michael Griebling

Oh, I've been meaning to ask you, how are you doing GUI development
with Oberon on BeOS?  Has Visual Oberon been ported to BeOS yet, or
are you using some other library?

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F
Of course BlackBox for Windows did not completely succeed. IMO, if a
software development tool needs to succeed, it has to succeed in the USA,
and first of all, in corporate America. Of course, all these companies have
already their prefered tools, and programmers that are trained to use them.
If a company uses VB or VC++ it is practicaly impossible to convinece CIO to
swich to BB. If they use Delphi, they are closer to that, but you still have
to have excellent arguments why BB is better solution than Delphi. Frist,
the price of upgrade to Delophi 5 Enterprise edition is less than the price
of BB+DirectToCOM. Delphi has also DCOM support, but it has CORBA support
too. The probability that Borland will be at the market ten years from now
is much higher than the probabilty for Oberon uSystems. It is easier to find
a programmer who uses Delphi than BB (not to mention VB).

The best argument for BB would be BB's platform independence (and
performance better than Java). If you can say this app will work on Windows,
MacOS, Linux, Solaris, PalmOS (why not), that would be the best argument. Of
course oberon uSystems has to do this platform independence before Borland
and others. In software development whoever comes the first, gets the best
piece of the pie.



Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

snip...

Quote:

> Of course although Linux is a smaller market than Windows, it's
> also less crowded.  As far as I know there isn't a PowerBuilder,
> Visual Basic or Delphi for Linux.  A cross platform system that
> let you rapid develop simultaneously for Windows, Mac and Linux
> could be a real killer-app.  (Oh and BeOS.  :-) )

snip ...

Oberon Microsystems may have to compete with Delphi for Linux share:

    http://www.borland.com/about/press/1999/linuxdev.html

-- Hal



Tue, 23 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:

>Oberon Microsystems may have to compete with Delphi for Linux share:

>    http://www.borland.com/about/press/1999/linuxdev.html

>-- Hal

Whoever comes the first with a solution takes everything. You can come later
and succeed only with multimillion hype-making propaganda (something that
Sun tries)


Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 CD-Oberon - Oberon/F

Quote:



> > Of course, I'll put in my wish too that they port to the BeOS.  It
> has very
> > few high-level languages available and a lot of people frustrated
> with C++.

> > Michael Griebling

> Oh, I've been meaning to ask you, how are you doing GUI development
> with Oberon on BeOS?  Has Visual Oberon been ported to BeOS yet, or
> are you using some other library?

I'm using the native C++ interface at the moment.  There is an
Oberon-2 interface in the works.  Basically, the C++ classes have
to be encapsulated in a C interface.  Visual Oberon could use the
C interface when it is completed.  If you're interested in working
on the Visual Oberon interface to the BeOS, let me know since
I'm also busy on porting native Oberon to the BeOS.  I can make
the C interface available.

Michael Griebling



Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 14 post ] 

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