Do you have Standards Committee in your language? 
Author Message
 Do you have Standards Committee in your language?

Hi

Quote:

> All,

> Thinking about role of Standards Committee in my favorite
> language (fortran) I decided to hear advice from folks in other
> languages first.

> What is the role of Your Language committee?

> Does Your Committees expand horizons and enlightens compiler
> developers with their recommendations? Or opposite,
> not being creative, they are working like brake for language
> development and experimenting and eventually are bad for
> users?

Language Development, Language Usage are different things.
The first does experiment on new ideas and concepts.
The last takes the most usable and practivable conzepts and uses them in
daily work.
And the task of a Language Commitee is, to decide which of the concepts
considered practicale by the users are part of the Language it selve and
therefore have to be supplied and implemented by all Language/Compilor
Vendors in the same manner, and which of the conceps are just
convenience eqivalences to basic consturcts.
IMHO these constucts should also be standardized and made obligatory for
all compilors but in contrast to the Language they originate form the
usage of the language an there for have to stay equivalences to language
constructs and have to be replaceable by the basics without a change in
binary code :)

Quote:
> Do you think that compiler vendors and users themselves are not
> able to maintain backward compatibility without such committees?

It is not a matter of backward compatibility only, it is also a matter
of source compatibility between compilors from different compilor
vendors and builders. It doesn not make much sense, if you have to
rewrite your code completely because everything is named different and
behaves different.
And when it comes to systemadministration, than it is even preferable
that the same version of a (dynamic link) library is binarycompatible
atleast its interfaces to binary originating from different comilors for
the same processor (architecture). And this tasks can't and won't be
done by compilor vendors, even when willing. Thess are interrests of
language users and administrators of the systems used by language users :)

Quote:
> And in general, do you see some analogies between Language Committees
> and other regulations in other areas of real life, on the net etc ?

> I think these questions are of common interest.
> This is post in several language compiler newsgroups,
> hence please mention your language unless you specially
> don't want this. You may find responds on other languages
> searching Deja with subject as above.

I surely want a standardisation:
1) writng code is timeconsuming, rewriting it for another compilor
beause of
    migration/porting to other systems is inacceptable!!!
2) administrating a system where 10 versions of the same library(same
version number)
    are istalled, in order to be able to supply alle users with the
libraries needed for their programs to run and
    their compilors and/or linkers from complaining about linkability
and unknown symbols ...
    is desatrous.
3) each version of the same library (same version number) means a waste
of space, which is
    lost for sorting, reducing and saving Data.
    Allthough storagespace is nowadays relativily cheap, IMHO, this kind
of wasting space is
    not necessary at all.

Quote:

> cheers

Christoph

--
THESIS:     God is alive
PROOVE:     Who else would have scheduled the mankind and world first
             recommendation of resrearch????
CONCLUSION: Scientists do what he wants, willing or not:)



Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:59:03 GMT  
 Do you have Standards Committee in your language?

Quote:

>Thinking about role of Standards Committee in my favorite
>language (Fortran) I decided to hear advice from folks in other
>languages first.

Some problems with standard committees from the experience with
Modula-2:

   * It was an incredibly long process (nearly 10 years). So long that
     we effectively have a split of the community with compilers
     conforming to the old reference document (PIM3) and compilers
     conforming to the ISO Modula-2 standard. The split would have been
     less a problem by a more timely standard that would have been
     available at a time where most developers of Modula-2 compilers
     would have been still active.

   * It was far to ambitious. Instead of clarifying up some
     ambiguities left in the original reference documents there was
     a temptation to include new language features and to apply a
     formal language only few people are familiar with (VDL) that,
     if I am remembering right, needed two pages for defining the
     null statement. In general, standard committees that require
     all participants to agree with the final result tend to develop
     transitive closures of all ideas introduced instead of restricting
     themselves to minimality.

   * Standard documents generated by ISO and similar organizations
     are not freely distributable. Instead they are pretty
     expensive and this does not help to accept them.

Given these experiences and acknowledging that standardization processes
are still useful, I would recommend to start with a charter that states
the goals as minimal as possible, allows an open process and does not
require all participants to agree with the results. This can be done
well outside the ISO and similar institutions. The RFCs of the Internet
community are a good example for this.

Andreas.

--
Andreas Borchert, Universitaet Ulm, SAI, Helmholtzstr. 18, 89069 Ulm,  Germany

WWW:    http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/sai/borchert/
PGP:    http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/sai/borchert/pgp.html



Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:49:52 GMT  
 Do you have Standards Committee in your language?

Quote:

> All,

> Thinking about role of Standards Committee in my favorite
> language (Fortran) I decided to hear advice from folks in other
> languages first.

> What is the role of Your Language committee?

Very small.  The face of the language is determined by a commercial player.

(Pascal :-)



Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:40:52 GMT  
 
 [ 3 post ] 

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