What happened to Lilith 
Author Message
 What happened to Lilith

Hi everyone,
Lilith was written in Modula-2 if I understand well. I did a search (with
yahoo) about it but could not find anything. Is it a dead project or is the OS
commercialy protected and the company jump to a new system?
Thanks in advance foy any answers.
                                Utheza Didier.


Sat, 29 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith

Quote:
> Lilith was written in Modula-2 if I understand well.

Lilith was a workstation and its operating system (called Medos)
and applications were written in Modula-2. This workstation
was (to my knowledge) the first window-oriented and mouse-using
workstation outside of PARC.

Quote:
> I did a search (with
> yahoo) about it but could not find anything. Is it a dead project or is the OS
> commercialy protected and the company jump to a new system?

The ``company'' (it would be more appropiate to talk about Prof. Niklaus
Wirth and the ETH Zrich, ETH = Eidgen?ssische Technische Hochschule)
used Lilith workstations for a long period in education and research
(1978 - later 80ies) until they were replaced by the Ceres, an
Oberon based workstation.

The ETH tried to sell Lilith workstations but this was never a
commercial success (if I remember correctly, less than 100 workstations
were sold to external companies). Nowadays, you'll find Lilith workstations
at a exhibition at ETH and in the personal property of some fans only.

Andreas.

--
Andreas Borchert, Universitaet Ulm, SAI, Helmholtzstr. 18, 89069 Ulm,  Germany

WWW:    http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/sai/borchert/



Sun, 30 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith
Hi! Andreas,
I heard that Lilith was more like Unix in its philosophy. DR Wirth and
his colleges chose a different approach to develop the Oberon OS. The Oberon
system is quite good (I am using Native Oberon and Linux on the same
machine), but its structure is quite different from Unix and fullfills
different needs. Since Lilith was not recognized to its true value and
apparently is going down the closet, it would be (this is just a suggestion)
good to let the code to the hackers (under a specific licence for commercial
use, etc...) to allow them to develop the system (since Modula-3 is here and
that Object Modula-2 should come out, the tools are here to develop a new
modern OS without the pitfalls of C++).
Ada people are talking about writing the Linux kernel in Ada95, but actually a
similar work was done in Modula, it would be a pity to let a good OS dye away.
Of course, I would be among the first to help if such a project should take
place.

sincerely,
                                Didier Utheza.



Sun, 30 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith

Quote:

> Surely there were many other tools as well. This is just an excerpt.

It's a pity that they don't release the system as a CD, since it must be
of considerable historical interest.

-- Mark Morgan Lloyd

--
-- [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or
colleagues]
--
-- ** Internet feed may be unreliable- please cc anything important by
email **



Sun, 30 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith

Quote:
> Since Lilith was not recognized to its true value and
> apparently is going down the closet, it would be (this is just a suggestion)
> good to let the code to the hackers (under a specific licence for commercial
> use, etc...) to allow them to develop the system (since Modula-3 is here and
> that Object Modula-2 should come out, the tools are here to develop a new
> modern OS without the pitfalls of C++).

If you are interested in a revival of some of the tools of Lilith,
or in a Lilith simulator, you should simply ask for it at the ETH Zrich.
My family of Modula-2 compilers, for example, is derived from the
Zrich Modula-2 compiler for the Lilith. I was able to get a permission
from ETH Zrich to distribute my derivations under the terms of the GPL.

But some of the main difficulties could be the problem to find readable
copies of the software that was developed for Lilith.

Quote:
> Ada people are talking about writing the Linux kernel in Ada95, but actually a
> similar work was done in Modula, it would be a pity to let a good OS dye away.

But you should know that Lilith was a very special kind of hardware
developed at the ETH Zrich, i.e. a 16-bit machine with four
AMD2901 bit slice processors using a micro programm that was emulating
M-code, an instruction set that was specifically developed for Modula-2.
16-bit doesn't sound much but they were adressing words, giving 128k,
and separating program text and data, giving 256k.

Like the Oberon system, Medos-2 supported a single user and a single
task only. But you had coroutines, of course -- a feature that wasn't
introduced to Oberon at the beginning.

Some of the tools that were running on Lilith:

- standard tools including compiler, editor, de{*filter*}
- Andra, a document editor (they were of course using their own
  systems and software to document it), developed by J. Gutknecht and
  W. Winiger
- Lara, an extension of Andra, developed by J. Gutknecht and H. Sch?r
- SIL, Simple Illustrator, developed by N. Wirth
- Draw, a more general drawing program, by H. Sch?r
- Kolmas, a working environment, by W. Winiger
- LIDAS, a relational database system developed by a team of C. A. Zehnder
  including
  * Modula/R, an extension of Modula-2 towards relational databases
    (comparable to the earlier Pascal/R and later developments of
    J. W. Schmidt, with fair optimizations, in that time far better
    than any commercial system I knew of),
  * Gambit (an interactive system for the design of relational databases
    on base of extended ER diagrams, this was years ahead of similar
    products of nowadays databases),
  * DISCUSS (an interactive data manipulation system)
- Modula--Prolog, a Modula-2 based Prolog system by C. Muller

Surely there were many other tools as well. This is just an excerpt.

Andreas.

--
Andreas Borchert, Universitaet Ulm, SAI, Helmholtzstr. 18, 89069 Ulm,  Germany

WWW:     http://www.*-*-*.com/



Mon, 01 Oct 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith
: Hi everyone,
: Lilith was written in Modula-2 if I understand well. I did a search (with
: yahoo) about it but could not find anything. Is it a dead project or is the OS
: commercialy protected and the company jump to a new system?
: Thanks in advance foy any answers.
:                               Utheza Didier.
No, it wasn't made by a "company", but by the ETH (university) of
Zuerich, Switzerland. Over time it has been replaced by the Oberon
system, also by Prof. Wirth.

Holger



Mon, 08 Oct 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith
Quote:

> Hi! Andreas,
> I heard that Lilith was more like Unix in its philosophy. DR Wirth and
> his colleges chose a different approach to develop the Oberon OS. The Oberon
> system is quite good (I am using Native Oberon and Linux on the same
> machine), but its structure is quite different from Unix and fullfills
> different needs. Since Lilith was not recognized to its true value and
> apparently is going down the closet, it would be (this is just a suggestion)
> good to let the code to the hackers (under a specific licence for commercial
> use, etc...) to allow them to develop the system (since Modula-3 is here and
> that Object Modula-2 should come out, the tools are here to develop a new
> modern OS without the pitfalls of C++).
> Ada people are talking about writing the Linux kernel in Ada95, but actually a
> similar work was done in Modula, it would be a pity to let a good OS dye away.
> Of course, I would be among the first to help if such a project should take
> place.

if you're working with the Oberon System, you're working with the
current release of the Lilith OS. Project Oberon was started
afaik after the second sabbatical of NW together with Joerg Gutknecht
at Palo Alto and designed to realize the Lilith OS.

AFAIK, the XDS people are a spin off russian university, where a
unix clone was written in Modula-2.

--
    Bernhard Treutwein             Tel. +49-89-5996-642, Fax -615
    Institut f. Med. Psychologie  Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet

    --------------------------------  ---------------------------
    C is its own virus



Mon, 08 Oct 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 What happened to Lilith
On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:10:31 +0200, Bernhard Treutwein

Quote:

>AFAIK, the XDS people are a spin off russian university, where a
>unix clone was written in Modula-2.

Moreover, that Unix clone was running on a 32-bit Lilith clone called
Kronos. See http://www.xds.ru/krg.html and http://kronos.ws2000.com/
for more information.

Dmitry Leskov
----------------------------------------------------------
Dmitry V. Leskov     Phone     : +7 3832 39 78 24 (ext. 14)

JSC XDS
P.O. Box 415         Phone/fax : +7 3832 39 78 24

630090 Russia        Web       : http://www.xds.ru/



Tue, 09 Oct 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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