Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine" 
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 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"


}>       PLEASE EDIT <String> WITH <Script> WRITTEN-IN <Lang>
}>       <Expr> = "any string"
}>       <Script> = "a <Lang> script"
}>       <Lang> = TECO | M4 | INTERCAL etc.
}Given the internationalization efforts, <Lang> must be restricted to
}similarly interesting languages. I would suggest at the very least
}that Autocoder, Forth-77, TECO, and ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL
}be supported.

Hey, don't forget 'sed'!  Next closest thing to line noise after TECO :-)

(Call me perverse, but I once wrote a pair of sed scripts to convert back
and forth between MS Word-generated RTF and Borland Sprint documents....
About 250 lines for RTF->Sprint and 175 lines for Sprint->RTF.)


FIDO: Ralf Brown 1:129/26.1 | "Determine that the thing can and shall be done,

Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:46:15 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"

   There's a problem here.  Klingon orthography is case-sensitive.  But the
   examples in the INTERCAL-72 manual clearly show the input digit names in
   ALL CAPS.  This means that we either (a) have to treat English as a special
   case for which digits are accepted in either case, or (b) fold the Klingon
   names into upper case, violating the accepted orthography.  Yuck.

Why not simply use backslash-letter for capitals? 4 = LO\S, 9 = \HUT
Exactly what happens under unix if you have a capital-only terminal.
This tradition is surely as old as Intercal (and used about as much
these days).

   : [...]

   This is an even bigger problem.  I'd have to support two YACC grammars,
   one for English and one for Klingon.  Bletch.

   Klingon is beginning to seem like a bad idea. [...]

Every reasonable programming language has different vendors,
incompatible implementations and various dialects. People expect this
of a language.  Besides, if there's only one implementation, creating
a standard will be no fun at all (because there is a de facto standard
   If we want to attract programmers, we have to give them the feeling
that there is competition and progress in intercal. Definitely the
best way to reach this goal is: provide Klingon Tri-Intercal, together
with a few buggy conversion tools! Or someone write VM-Intercal (based
on a super fast virtual machine).
  Let's say it all together:

  Intercal - the language of the future!


"If I have not seen as far as others, then that's |  Axel Wienberg
 because giants were standing on my shoulders"    |  Hinzeweg 9
                        Hal Abelson               |  21075 Hamburg

Mon, 03 Mar 1997 19:30:43 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"

> Under ISO rules, there is no pressing need for standardization.
> For that, you need multiple incompatible implementations causing
> portability problems.

Weird.  You mean they didn't realize the possibility of a *single*
implementation being incompatible with itself?  What a severe lack
of imagination!

Sun Microsystems, Inc. -- SMI/SunSoft/DevPro/ADE       La no ka 'oi.

Tue, 04 Mar 1997 10:49:45 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"

   : What?  Have you forgotten Lojban already?

   No.  I thought about it.  But lojban support would be entirely too sane and
   rational a feature for INTERCAL.  The next logical step after Klingon was
   clearly support of a *dead* synthetic language.

   Solresol, Langue Bleu and Interlingua were all appealing.  But, to those
   few of us who know of it, the fusty 19th-century Germanic ponderosity of
   Volapuk makes it *obviously* the Right Thing.

   (History: Volapuk was a late-19th-century invention that was sort of
   generalized-Teutonic-stripped-to-the-running-gears in the same way that
   Esperanto is generalized-Latinate-stripped-to-the-running-gears.  When
   Dr. Zamenhof floated Esperanto, essentially the entire Volapuk community
   migrated to it en masse, leaving Volapuk stranded like a dead whale on
   the beach of history.)

How poetic.  I know Esperanto and you will note that at no time did I advocate
INTERCAL supporting Esperanto.  Whatever each of you may think of Esperanto
and its future, there are people out here who actually speak it.  There is a
growing body of Esperanto literature.  As I said, the INTERCAL standard would
then have to contend with an actual body of living speakers who might disagree
with us over what the words mean.  I believe that there are a few Volapuk
speakers around somewhere, but their numbers are small enough that we could
easily reach a concensus with them if necessary, assuming we can find them.

- Dale
My employer's opinions are published     | Lernu paroli Esperanton!
elsewhere.  These opinions are strictly  |
my own.                                  |

Directory & Operator Services, 97 Humboldt St., Rochester, NY 14609

Tue, 04 Mar 1997 23:27:15 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"

>You could also implement the widespread language of Saami: nolla, okta,
>guokte, golbma, njeallje, vihtta, guhtta, cieza, gavcci, ovcci.
>Or, while we are at it, Greenlandic: nul, ataaseq, marluk, pingasut,
>sisamat, tallimat, arfineq, arfineq marluk, arfineq pingasut,

This looks like Greenlandic doesn't have words for "seven" and "eight"
and uses "six one" and "six two" instead.  We can't have that in INTERCAL,
because INTERCAL prints number by spelling out the digits.  If it prints

        arfineq marluk arfineq pingasut

you wouldn't know whether that meant 6162 or 618 or 762 or 78.

INTERCAL is meant to be slightly odd, not completely unusable.


Several recent languages have adopted an Intercal-like,
asychronous computed COME-FROM concept.  Only they refer to
it with funny terms like "exception handling'.

Wed, 05 Mar 1997 01:13:31 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"
: Kzinti. No doubt about it, the Kzin script (mostly variations on the comma)
: *must* be supported by INTERCAL.

If you know of a canonical description of Kzin orthography, I'd *love* to
see it.

Me, I think the Kzinti writing looks I've seen in illos looks more like TECO
code transcribed into Arabic...

Tue, 04 Mar 1997 11:51:20 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"

   : For Proto-Indoeuropean:
   : <digits omitted>
   : Actually, to be technically correct, you need to prefix * to each word.

   Done and done.  These will be in 0.11.

Aaaaaaaargh! Bloat! Bloat!

To support only a *very* limited number of languages, each chosen
seemingly at random, would be much more in the spirit of a language
with only two operators. Please reconsider.


Tue, 04 Mar 1997 18:18:33 GMT  
 Help! Need Klingon words for "zero" through "nine"


>: I wish he'd do an ATLAS implementation along the same lines.  I've got
>: the 1984 edition of the standard, ISBN 471-82745-2, and it's several
>: inches thick.  An example from page 12-31:

        [ATLAS example mercifully deleted]

>This looks really, really {*filter*}.  What is it, some kind of language for
>instrumentation control.

That's exactly what it is.  I worked on a similar language (two of them,
actually) for programming GenRad 2270 and 2750 circuit board testers.

> What, exactly, makes it interesting?

I presume sheer hairiness; I used to describe the syntax of the GenRad
languages as "a cross between BASIC and line noise".  I designed and
implemented a major round of control flow and library enhancements to the
2270 language, ostensibly for marketing purposes but really so that I
could write a calendar program in it.


PS: Any other GenRad alumni out there?  Or maybe I should ask if there are
still any GenRad employees...

Wed, 05 Mar 1997 05:21:20 GMT  
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