ANN: FIG UK hosts monthly IRC session 
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 ANN: FIG UK hosts monthly IRC session

Just a reminder.

FIG UK's regular IRC session (1st Sat. of month) takes place this
Saturday from 9:00pm BST (1:00pm PST)
All welcome - you will find us on channel #FIGUK, using the IRC server
network called "IRCNet".

(For IRC help, see http://www.*-*-*.com/ )
(For IRCNet, see
http://www.*-*-*.com/ )

To find your local time for this session, see:
http://www.*-*-*.com/

                                  ____/  /  __  /   /   /   /   /
Bye for now                      /      /  /  _/   /   /   /  /
                                __/    /  / __    /   /   /_/
Chris Jakeman                  /      /  /   /   /   /   /  \
                            __/    __/  ____/    ___/ __/   _\

                           Forth Interest Group United Kingdom
Voice +44 (0)1733 753489   chapter at http://www.*-*-*.com/



Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:59:04 GMT  
 ANN: FIG UK hosts monthly IRC session

Quote:

> Just a reminder.

> FIG UK's regular IRC session (1st Sat. of month) takes place this
> Saturday from 9:00pm BST (1:00pm PST)
> All welcome - you will find us on channel #FIGUK, using the IRC server
> network called "IRCNet".

> (For IRC help, see http://www.irchelp.org)
> (For IRCNet, see
> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/networks/servers/ircnet.html)

> To find your local time for this session, see:
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=5&month=4&ye...

>                                   ____/  /  __  /   /   /   /   /
> Bye for now                      /      /  /  _/   /   /   /  /
>                                 __/    /  / __    /   /   /_/
> Chris Jakeman                  /      /  /   /   /   /   /  \
>                             __/    __/  ____/    ___/ __/   _\

>                            Forth Interest Group United Kingdom
> Voice +44 (0)1733 753489   chapter at http://forth.org.uk

============================================================================

Here is a summary of the good part of the session.  It started early.
I missed what came before 15 minutes ahead of time.  JP

<mlg> What is especially good is that the colorer is able to highlight
(with e.g. red) the use of semi-colon outside colon definition. If you
mispress the shift key and use : instead of ; , the next word will not
be in white; if you insert an extra ; , it will be red.
<mlg> [it seems, nothing more has left to say about coloring]
<John_Pete> I am interested in colorizing.  We have a start on it in
Win32Forth. How can I follow up on these ideas and plans later on?
<mjoonas> Have you looked at vim's Forth syntax colorer?
<mlg> colorer is free source and probably PD (not sure); you probably
can [will
  be able to] use the colorer's C code; I am going to publish my Forth
colorer
  XML when I finish it.
<mlg> what is vim's Forth syntax colorer?
<mjoonas> The vim editor has a nice Forth mode that colours forth code
much like   you describe.
<mlg> mjoonas: vim for is linux or win32 ?
<mjoonas> both.
<mjoonas> see www.vim.org
<jennyb> But coloring: I arrange name in 3 levels with a list for
each, like Holon
<jennyb> Module, Group, word
<jennyb> Should be easy to arrange that all links to words in the same
module
  display in the same colour
<CJ> Small but widely spread - Canada, Finland, Russia, UK, USA
<John_Pete> There is a list of words that are used as a lookup table.
You can
  specify the colour or color of the 2nd word after a colon for
example. The thing I can not do is use bold due to the fact that bold
is a wider character and the curlor location gets messed up.
<CJ> Two new visitors today - thin (Canada) and Joonas (Finland)
<mjoonas> John_Pete: I put up an example of vim coloured Forth at
  http://www.helsinki.fi/~jpihlaja/gvim.png
<Tcharlier> CJ : great
<CJ> Joonas - looks good.
<John_Pete> Good
<Howerd> What have I missed???
<mjoonas> Coloured Forth in WinEdit, vim, and MLG's own colorer.
<John_Pete> I can send you a brief.  We are talking about the above
<Howerd> Ta..
<Howerd> I use WinEd ( free with Win32Forth ) - its colours the text
too.
<mjoonas> oh, sorry. I'm pretty sure that's what I meant.
<Howerd> I think you can configure WinEdit to colour Forth too...
<mlg> [about coloring] Downloaded and installed vim -- not bad, it
seems.
<mlg> but vim's colorer does not show that ; outside of a : definition
is an error
<John_Pete> Chuck Moore uses color to indicate the start of a
definiton instaed of  a colon in color Forth, No?
<kitsune49> There are now native, dos, windows and linux versions of
colorforth
<mlg> folks, what colors CM uses for what?
<thin> yellow for comments, green for executable?
<thin> red for super executable?
<thin> nah red for the : WORD part i guess
<Howerd> red = :, yellow = immediate, green = compile, white =
comment, magenta = variable.
<Howerd> Oh, and cyan for immediate macros ( defined in the macor
vocabulary )
<kitsune49> red is for new definitions, : create variable/constant
etc.
<John_Pete> How can you use white (on white?) or what?
<kitsune49> after defining the only difference between a variable and
a value
  (constant) is the color you use
<Howerd> Black background!
<mjoonas> on black
<John_Pete> wow on black!
<kitsune49> except when printing where black and white are reversed
<Howerd> kitsune49: colorForth does not use constants and variables in
the normal way.
<mlg> I distinguish 2 types of comments: usual comments and block
title comments
<kitsune49> constants, variables, and values are all the same thing.
The color
  determins how they are used.  So one thing does all three
<mlg> \ === block title ====
<Howerd> There is a magenta variable which uses the next cell address
in the
  source code to store its value. If you store a value into it, the
source
  changes.
<Howerd> I find this quite amazing!
<kitsune49> Howerd, yes, that freaked some people out.  Elizabeth
Rather said it was just crazy!
<mlg> I do not understand why varibles must be different from
constants or
  anything else. They are just words.
<Howerd> Really!!!
<Howerd> I don't think they are different.
<kitsune49> one color gives the address another color gives the value
<mlg> [kits] that is, one color means fetch ?
<Howerd> Perhaps I don't mean that last comment;)
<kitsune49> yes, new ideas on how to simplify the language and reduce
the number of words
<Howerd> You have to specify meanings very precisely here...

<kitsune49> Normally a variable returns the address, a constant
returns a value, a value returns a value.  But in colorforth they are
not different words, just different colors of the same type of word

green (
  compile ) or yellow ( immediate ). These are the closest to
constants.
<mlg> [kits] Oh, I understand: NOP NOP NOP but first two are colored
as fetch and the last is colored like store
<Howerd> You cannot explicitly set the colour of a previously defined
word.
<kitsune49> red means a definition, : means following red words are :
type while variable means following red words are variables using the
named variables in one color means variable, a different color for
variables means also fetch value all new words being added to the
dictionary are red they are compiled with green, executed with black,
postponed with it eliminates words like [ ] postpone etc
<mlg> [kits] postponed with what?
<kitsune49> a color, I don't know which, some color. When Chuck
mentioned it he said it was a color... I haven't used it so I don't
know.  But having worked with machineforth for over a decade
colorforth is just another small step to reduce syntax.
<Howerd> I have not seen postpone. I'm not sure Chuck uses it.

<John_Pete> If any one objects to my compiling this session and
editing it for
  clarity and puting it on  Comp lang Forth or else where please say
so now.  I
  think it is too important to just let it die.
<kitsune49> it is not quite like postpone, because compile and
interpret are just colors, call it delayed compile
<Howerd> Yes!
<Howerd> You can do things in colorForth that don't make sense in
normal Forth.
<kitsune49> I, for one, do not think POSTPONE is a good word because
you have to know whether the word being postponed is an immediate word
or not to really
  know what it is doing, but that is just my opinion
<mjoonas> kits: how do you feel about the ]] [[ proposal for delaying
compilation?
<Howerd> I think that colorForth does not have a State variable. As
you said
  earlier, each token knows its own action, so you can postpone
compilation if
  you like, by using yellow ( "immediate" ).
<Howerd> mjoonas : what is the proposal?
<mlg> [kits] it is not 100% true: the full word set is POSTPONE name ,
[COMPILE]   name , COMPILE [COMPILE] name and maybe something else.
And it also depends on how you define "full".
<mjoonas> In compilation state when you use the phrasse ]] ...words...
[[ then
  the compilation of ...words... is delayed.
<mlg> : OF ]] OVER = IF DROP [[ ; IMMEDIATE
<Howerd> Thanks.
<mlg> I dislike that brackets are turned the other way
<Howerd> : ]]    POSTPONE ] ;   ???
<mlg> And [[ is not really a word...
<mjoonas> ]] would parse words from the input and postpone them until
it sees a
  [[ .
<kitsune49> [[ blah stuff xxx ]] is easier to read than POSTPONE blah
POSTPONE stuff POSTPONE xxx
<kitsune49> but it does add further complexity to have it all.
<John_Pete> but it does look better

Quote:
>IN !

  POSTPONE POSTPONE  ...
<kitsune49> yikes
<mlg> kits, jp: but it is not [[ blah ]] , it is ]] blah [[
<Howerd> Ok.
<Howerd> An interesting point to note : I find it much easier to
understand the
  Forth : ]] ... ; than the English description...
<Howerd> An interesting point to note : I find it much easier to
understand the
  Forth : ]] ... ; than the English description...
<mjoonas> hm.. unless the computer's clock is off :)
<Howerd> An interesting point to note : I find it much easier to
understand the
  Forth : ]] ... ; than the English description...

<snip>  That is it for today.  Next we went on to experiment with VNC.
I deleted the part where we linke four of our screens.

JP



Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:27:40 GMT  
 ANN: FIG UK hosts monthly IRC session


Quote:
>Here is a summary of the good part of the session.  It started early.
>I missed what came before 15 minutes ahead of time.  JP

><mlg> What is especially good is that the colorer is able to highlight
>(with e.g. red) the use of semi-colon outside colon definition. If you
>mispress the shift key and use : instead of ; , the next word will not
>be in white; if you insert an extra ; , it will be red.
[SNIP]
>That is it for today.  Next we went on to experiment with VNC.
>I deleted the part where we linke four of our screens.

>JP

A summary is fine but I am not happy about reporting conversations
verbatim on c.l.f without explicit permission from the authors. These
conversations will now be indexed by Google and accessible by anyone
for the foreseeable future.

IRC is public but informal. It is not a newsgroup where postings are
composed at leisure and archiving is expected. For example, if I had
included an email in the section you quoted, this would now be
harvestable by spammers.

What do others think?

                                  ____/  /  __  /   /   /   /   /
Bye for now                      /      /  /  _/   /   /   /  /
                                __/    /  / __    /   /   /_/
Chris Jakeman                  /      /  /   /   /   /   /  \
                            __/    __/  ____/    ___/ __/   _\

                           Forth Interest Group United Kingdom
Voice +44 (0)1733 753489   chapter at http://forth.org.uk



Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:09:42 GMT  
 ANN: FIG UK hosts monthly IRC session
Quote:

  ...

> What do others think?

This other finds you admirably reticent. It's not possible to "unwrite".

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.



Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:34:34 GMT  
 
 [ 5 post ] 

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