Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?) 
Author Message
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:

> Does Forth have void or a false value 0 surrounded by millions
> and millions of true values (all of them boiling down to the 1 true
> faith)?

Yes, certainly. But the one true faith is -1 instead of 1 in C++. It
also shows that by negating truth, you get just another truth.

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~paysan/



Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:

> Nah.  First offence, finger.  Second offence, hand.  Third offence, head.
> The road to civilization is not tolerating criminal behavior.

You mean people who chop off fingers, hands, and heads? Reminds me of
the execution of Stoertebecker (famous pirate) in Hamburg. The executer
was quite happy about chopping off the heads, so the senate was worried.
The senate decided to have him executed, too. The second executer
chopped of the head of the first one with a smile. One senator laid his
own hands on the second executer and afterwards killed himself.

Remember: there is no right way to do wrong things.

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/



Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)
[snip]

Quote:
> No wonder the bible looks a lot like history
>revision if you look at the known facts.

Could you please explain how you arrive at these "known facts", bearing in
mind your earlier claim that there is no truth outside mathematical logic?

Philip.
Member of FIG-UK: http://forth.org.uk



Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:

> I think is plain that diameter was rounded up as
>  9.7 * PI = 30.46 ; 9.5 * PI = 29.8  so all matches






> > > > (snip)

> > > > > Show me a contradiction.

> > > > My favorite is the following:

> > > > I Kings Ch. 7 verse 23

> > > > In King James translation: "And he made molten sea, ten cubits from the
> > one
> > > > brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five
> > cubits:
> > > > and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

> > > > From which it is obvious that pi must be three.

> > > >   -LenZ-

> > > I don't see a problem/contradiction. The values given were whole numbers
> > and a
> > > search ( using  Online Bible v7.06  c Timathserah Inc.
> > www.OnlinBible.org)
> > > for
> > > ((half | third | quarter | tenth) AND (cubit | cubits))
> > > indicated usage only for half cubit(s). All those were for lengths less
> > than 3
> > > cubits.

> > So if you rounded it off to the nearest whole number, you get a
> > circumference of 31 cubits in our space-time continuum. 31.5 would've been
> > even closer, but I'd have been happy with 31 cubits. Someone goofed
> > somewhere, but that's not supposed to happen in the Bible, is it?

> > Larry

The Ten Commandments are listed twice in the Bible. Compare the two
lists. There may be a surprise.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:




> > > > Nah.  First offence, finger.  Second offence, hand.  Third offence,
> head.
> > > > The road to civilization is not tolerating criminal behavior.

> > > This is the road to totalitarianism.

> > > "Thou shalt not kill"

> > > It amazes me how so many christian people in the states are pro death
> penalty
> > > even though it's against one of the most basic principles of christian
> ethics.

> > Doesn't the bible also say "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and
> > specify communinal stoning to death for such offenses as {*filter*}ery and
> > violating the the sabbath? Christians abandoned stoning for burning at
> > the stake.

> It's my understanding that that directive is more properly translated as,
> "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live."

> Larry

A better literal translation, but not better in meaning. The term refers
to a poisoner of minds, a corruptor. Christians in power in formerly
pagan Europe called them witches, and treated then the same way.
Remember, when Saul was in trouble, he consulted the Witch of Endor. To
punish him, God gave his throne to David.

Jerry

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:

> > What do you want when all you got to work with are whole numbers? Seesh!
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> thirty-one.

No. Assuming that they started with the circumfence (30 cubits), they'd
get a diameter of 9.549... cubits, which rounds to 10.

But after all, this jewish god is an invention of an egyptean pharao who
had some axes to grind with his priests. He (Echn'aton) raised Aton to
the single one god, in order to get rid of those priests he couldn't
control (by making himself high priest of Aton, he got grip on the
rest). Eventually he died (supposedly a natural death: poison. Pretty
natural for a pharao), and his young son Tut-anch-amun was introned. The
other priests and gods where set into power again, but the Aton priests
still dominated.

An old general (Sethos) got to power with a coup d'etat (after the
natural ;-) death of young Tut-anch-amun, just when he got old enough to
reign himself), and set things up to get his son (Ramses II) into power
a few years later. Ramses II is pretty accurately known as the pharao in
charge during the time Moses and the folks of Israel left Egypt. Ramses
II as a first move put a friend as the high priest of Aton, and
obviously cleaned up with the monotheists - I assume they had to leave
the country. It might have taken Ramses II quite a time to get them out
(after all, Moses spent quite a while with desert tribes before he went
back to Egypt), but after all, he had that time. Ramses II reigned for
65 years, and he died of a bad tooth (that's what you get when you don't
eat the poison ;-).

The bible is pretty accurate about Ramses' construction boom (he built
an entire city, lots of temples, statues, etc., more than anyone before
or after him), but I think, that's it. Ramses was a quite popular
pharao, because he brought stability. The moaning and {*filter*}ing about
people being beaten to work more is ridiculous. That was pretty usual
treatment back then, and I suppose even the unions agreed ;-).

Note aside: Ramses II removed Tut-anch-amun from the list of pharaos,
which is the reason why his grave didn't get robbed later. Nobody knew
that he actually existed. Revision of history was an art of the ones in
power, even back then. No wonder the bible looks a lot like history
revision if you look at the known facts. I think the pre-written history
of the bible invented the seven nuisances and the "let my people go"
theme to explain their childs why they left the paradise Egypt in
exchange to the dry lands of Palestine.

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~paysan/



Fri, 01 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

Quote:

>> Urm... that's all in the past, already, isn't it? So when did this
>> "technological conservatism" started to creep (back) in?

>The financial world has always been very conservative. They have got a lot
>of money to loose, that makes them somewhat reluctant to change as long as
>things are perceived to work reasonably well.

ISTM that, to the average company, the MIS is something they have to
do and have to pay for, so the potential benefit of improving the way
they do things is seen as reducing the cost.  This leads to conservatism,
since they see better ways to do things (e.g., Common Lisp) as having
a fairly small upside (reducing the cost of the MIS department) and
a large downside (causing vital systems to fail).  

Ideally, a software company would be less conservative, but I worked
for one that seemed to consider the development division as one
that they had to have and had to pay for.

This seems to imply that advances in software engineering are going to
come into financial institutions from outside, probably in the form
of new functionality with user customization.  (Which could probably
best be done in Common Lisp; it seems to be the best way to create
a seamlessly extensible package.)

--
David H. Thornley                        | If you want my opinion, ask.

http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-



Fri, 01 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP dying?(are Christians Good?)

+---------------

| > Does Forth have void or a false value 0 surrounded by millions
| > and millions of true values (all of them boiling down to the 1 true
| > faith)?
|
| Yes, certainly. But the one true faith is -1 instead of 1 in C++. It
| also shows that by negating truth, you get just another truth.
+---------------

IIRC, the BLISS language also used -1 for the one true truth.

But let's not forget the AMD Am29000 series, wherein "truth" == "negative"
(or more precisely, a "1" in the most-significant bit), and the architecture
specifically *didn't* define any "one true truth" other than the MSB.

[In fact, unless you read some specific processor manual *very* closely, you
couldn't even find out *what* the "compare" instructions returned for that
processor model. On the 29000 and 29030, they happened to return #x80000000
for true and 0 for false, but AMD reserved the right to change that...]

Though since a boolean could be converted to a full-word mask in just one
more cycle, you could still get pipeline-efficient branch-free selection
of alterative values. E.g., the code "(if (< a b) c d)" could be coded as
the 5-cycle sequence [assuming "a"-"d" already in the registers]:

        cplt    t0, a, b
        sra     t0, t0, 31      ; propagate sign bit throughout word
        and     t1, c, t0
        andn    t2, d, t0
        or      t0, t1, t2      ; final result in t0

-Rob

-----

Applied Networking              http://reality.sgi.com/rpw3/
Silicon Graphics, Inc.          Phone: 650-933-1673
1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy.         FAX: 650-933-0511
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Fri, 01 Feb 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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