Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ] 
Author Message
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]

[snip]

Quote:
>Just my thoughts,

Are you sure they are yours? They look suspiciously like dogma.

Philip.



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]

Quote:

> "Bruce Hoyt"  writes:



> > > Just as there are those who assume that Christianity implies
> > goodness,
> > > there are some who assume that goodness implies Christianity.
> > I once
> > > stopped to help a stranded car that turned out to be driven by
> > a nun.
> > > The passengers were three other nuns and a priest. When I got
> > them
> > > going, the driver thanked me and said I was a good Christian.
> > I assured
> > > her that I acceped that as a complement, but that her criteria
> > needed
> > > revising: I am Jewish. (I didn't have the heart to tell her
> > also that
> > > I'm an atheist.) I had to tell her again that I wasn't
> > insulted, and
> > > appologized for having flustered her. She curtsied and fled.
> > As I put my
> > > tools away, the priest came to me and thanked me again, saying
> > that I
> > > had given them all much more than roadside help. These weren't
> > stupid
> > > people; I can only assume that sanctimony creates blindness
> > which the
> > > blind don't always like.

> > Is it a contradiction to be Jewish and Christian? You seem to
> > imply that. But then how can one be Jewish and an atheist?

> > If being Christian means holding to a certain set of beliefs (as
> > it has traditionally been defined), and if being Jewish means
> > holding to another (and to some extent contradictory) set of
> > beliefs, then one cannot be a Christian and at the same time
> > Jewish. But one cannot be Jewish and an atheist either.

> > But if being Jewish means being descended from Jewish forebears
> > (perhaps going as far back as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) then one
> > certainly can be a Jewish Christian. And one can also be a
> > Jewish atheist.

> > Bruce

> Judaism is not primarily a belief system (although it has elements
> thereof grafted on) but a tribal/ethnic identification based on
> language, custom, rules and ancestry. Conversion to Judaism is
> not so much subscription to a credo as it is adoption into a tribe.

> Despite there being groups like Jews for Jesus, and despite the
> fact that the original followers (ante-Paul) of Jesus were primarily Jews,
> the core beliefs of Judaism are primarily concerned with actions and
> this world, in contrast to Christianity (modern, that is) whose core
> involves faith.

> One elegant way it has been put is that a Jewish athiest disbelieves
> in an entirely different sort of diety than an athiest of Christian or
> pagan upbringing.

> --
> Julian V. Noble

> "Elegance is for tailors!"      -- Ludwig Boltzmann

As a Jewish atheist, I can certify that at least one exists. Julian has
it correctly; being a member of that tribe isn't optional. Even if I
wanted it otherwise, there are those who would not accept that, and even
today, there are far too many who would like to think of me as raw
material for a lampshade.

Julian is also correct about practice's being considered more important
than faith. A rabbi friend tried for years to get me to attend services
regularly, with no hint that I ought to change my beliefs. "What matters
to God is what you do, not what you believe." We remained friends
despite my disinterest. Many of my charitable contributions are to
Jewish causes, including the local synagogue. It is an important local
cultural center; I want it to be there, even while having little
personal contact and no philosophical affinity at all.

When my Jewish acquaintances ask about religion, I tell than I am an
atheist; to Christians, I say I am a Jew. To say otherwise would seem to
many (and to me!) to be hiding something.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]
John,

I think that what you wrote is worthy of Johnathan Swift.

Quote:



> > Just as there are those who assume that Christianity
> > implies goodness, there are some who assume that
> > goodness implies Christianity.

> And let's not forget about the folks who use a very strange form of
> dynamic scoping when talking about their pet religion (often
> Christianity in my particular address space).  Instances of class
> "Christian" are apparently untyped and unqualified until someone
> points out some exponent of stupidity or evil that IsA Christian.
> Suddenly, future accesses to such an instance are restricted to the
> "False" namespace, while other Christian instances are put into the
> "True" namespace.

[more good satire snipped]

Jerry



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]
[thoughtful comment of previous poster snipped]

Quote:

> I agree with most of your article; religion in general and Chrisianity
> in particular is the worst thing that has ever happened to mankind.  I
> have to point out, though, that even though I am not a Christian or
> any other type of religionist, I do firmly believe in the death
> penalty for incorrigible criminals.  This is not due to any desire for
> vengeance, punishment, or revenge, but simply because it is the only
> reliable, effective way to keep them from doing it again.  In other
> words, it is societal self-defense.  Some people will never get
> better, and it is a disservice to society, to the taxpayers, to the
> families of those they have hurt, and to the criminals themselves to
> keep them locked up for life.  Better to just kill them and get it
> over with.

The problem with this theoretical argument is that, as a practical
matter, innocent people are convicted in large numbers. (Some
authorities estimate more than two percent.) There is no reason to
believe that the few who are eventually exonerated represent more than a
small fraction of the whole, and almost exclusively involve those still
alive. (If execution has already taken place, there is little reason to
take the trouble to collect new evidence.)

Quote:

> Another example of how Chrisitanity has twisted things around: the
> Christians consider assassination to be evil; they prefer to kill
> thousands of patriotic young men and innocent civilians on both sides
> just to somehow send The Bad Guy a message, rather than just sending
> in an elite team of hatchetmen to take him out.  I personally find
> warfare to be much more distasteful than assassination (though in some
> cases war is a necessity; sometimes you can't easily solve a problem
> just by taking out one or a few key Bad Guys).  Obvious sociopaths
> such as Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosovich, Pope John Paul, Pat
> Robertson, Bill Gates and Larry Wall should not be tolerated; we
> should expunge them as soon as they make themselves noticed by their
> egregious disregard for humanity.

Shall we appoint you to decide who ought to be assassinated? If not you,
then who?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]
Quote:


> > Nah.  First offence, finger.  Second offence, hand.  Third offence, head.
> > The road to civilization is not tolerating criminal behavior.

> This is the road to totalitarianism.

> "Thou shalt not kill"

> It amazes me how so many christian people in the states are pro death penalty
> even though it's against one of the most basic principles of christian ethics.

Doesn't the bible also say "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and
specify communinal stoning to death for such offenses as {*filter*}ery and
violating the the sabbath? Christians abandoned stoning for burning at
the stake.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]
Hello Philip,

As defined in Webster Illustrated Contemporary Dictionary Encyclopedic
edition copyright 1978,

Dogma 1. A system of teachings of religious truth as maintained by the
Christian church or any portion of it.

So, I certainly hope so,

Tom Zimmer

Quote:


> [snip]
> >Just my thoughts,

> Are you sure they are yours? They look suspiciously like dogma.

> Philip.



Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]

[The world according to Erik elided...]

Quote:
>   (someone accused me of posting "the world according to me" articles some
>   time ago.  since I am already accused of it, at least I deserve it now.)

Erik, where can I order the reprints :-)

Benjamin

--
As an anti-spam measure I have scrambled my email address here.
Remove "nospam-" and ROT13 to obtain my email address in clear text.



Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Death penalty for LISP ? [ was: Re: Is LISP dying? ]

Quote:

> An aslternative  could be (to ensure that justice is carried out prudently)
> to legislate an automatic death sentence for judge, jury, police and DAs
> involved plus one randomly selected death penalty supporter every time
> somebody who has been executed later is proven to be innocent. I thinkl
> I could live with that.

A system like that was actually prctised by the Scythians an ancient
nomadic group of people populating the steppes of central Asia. If someone
was accused of treason a soothsayer was consulted and if the soothsayer
decided he was guilty and someone disputed then other (I think five)
soothsayers were consulted. If they did not confirm then the first
soothsayer was killed.

Don't know how successful the scheme was, though.

Benjamin

--
As an anti-spam measure I have scrambled my email address here.
Remove "nospam-" and ROT13 to obtain my email address in clear text.



Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 433 post ]  Go to page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29]

 Relevant Pages 
 

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software