Is LISP or Latin dying? 
Author Message
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:


>    :One vote in favour and one against, in the same message. IOW,
>    :yes, if shorter words should be left alone, that's a vote against.
>    :But the problem with WITHIN and BETWEEN is *false* precision: people
>    :often take them to mean something other than [u1...u2).

> So call it [..) and use the freedom Forth gives us...
> --
> the desk lisard     communa     time's taught the killing game herself

It's OK to talk about what might have been, but assigning new names to
old words and especially old names for new words is VERY BAD practice.
WITHIN <--> WITHIN (not!), and NOT (returns 1|0) <--> NOT (returns
complement) are examples. TUCK <--> OVER, and <> <--> FLIP are bad
enough!

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?
[newsgroups trimmed to comp.lang.forth only, although I'm sure the
Lisp guys enjoyed the crossposts]


Quote:
>( ROT13 is a simple substitution cypher, often used in the Internet back )
>( when it first became really popular.  The residents of the Internet    )
>( back then were all upright netizens, and there was no need for further )
>( privacy measures. [...]

Erm, no. Or I didn't get the joke.

ROT13 is also known as "Caesar's cipher", as Gaius Julius Caesar is
said to have used it ca. 58 B.C. to encrypt messages to his Roman
troops. It has in fact been in use since the beginning of
Usenet/netnews and still is quite popular (most software supports it),
but *not* for ensuring privacy. By all means, better encryption
schemes have been invented and broken since at least the 16th century.

Its intention on Usenet is to reversibly *obscure* joke punchlines,
movie endings, puzzle clues etc. in respective newsgroups.

The last report of cryptographic use of Cesar's cipher is from 1915.
To their dismay, the Russian military learned that their officers
could not cope with anything more complicated. Their enemies rejoiced.

The shortest ROT13 program I know of is in my signature below.

Cheers,
Helge
--
[1[2J<.-Z;0A"A0A&96U10A&31+13U2Q2-26"GQ2-26U2'DQ2%1I$R'C>]2]1



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:

>>( ROT13 is a simple substitution cypher, often used in the Internet back )
>>( when it first became really popular.  The residents of the Internet    )
>>( back then were all upright netizens, and there was no need for further )
>>( privacy measures. [...]

>Erm, no. Or I didn't get the joke.

Erm, yes.  By your own admission.

Quote:
>ROT13 is also known as "Caesar's cipher", as Gaius Julius Caesar is
>said to have used it ca. 58 B.C. to encrypt messages to his Roman

A substitution cypher.

Quote:
>troops. It has in fact been in use since the beginning of
>Usenet/netnews and still is quite popular (most software supports it),

..., often used in the Internet back when it first became really popular.

==========================================================================
      KC5TJA/6     |                  -| TEAM DOLPHIN |-
        DM13       |                  Samuel A. Falvo II
    QRP-L #1447    |          http://www.dolphin.openprojects.net
   Oceanside, CA   |......................................................



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:


>It's OK to talk about what might have been, but assigning new names to
>old words and especially old names for new words is VERY BAD practice.
>WITHIN <--> WITHIN (not!), and NOT (returns 1|0) <--> NOT (returns
>complement) are examples. TUCK <--> OVER, and <> <--> FLIP are bad
>enough!

        OK, I surrender.  FROM-TO-JUST-LESS-THAN is is.


Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:



> >It's OK to talk about what might have been, but assigning new names to
> >old words and especially old names for new words is VERY BAD practice.
> >WITHIN <--> WITHIN (not!), and NOT (returns 1|0) <--> NOT (returns
> >complement) are examples. TUCK <--> OVER, and <> <--> FLIP are bad
> >enough!

>         OK, I surrender.  FROM-TO-JUST-LESS-THAN is is.

Peace! I must have been asleep. Anyhow, it's TUCK <--> UNDER,
and >< <--> FLIP.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art       |      Let's talk about what
of making what you want      |      you need; you may see
from things you can get.     |      how to do without it.
---------------------------------------------------------



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:

>> >WITHIN <--> WITHIN (not!), and NOT (returns 1|0) <--> NOT (returns
>> >complement) are examples. TUCK <--> OVER, and <> <--> FLIP are bad
>> >enough!

>>         OK, I surrender.  FROM-TO-JUST-LESS-THAN is is.

>Peace! I must have been asleep. Anyhow, it's TUCK <--> UNDER,
>and >< <--> FLIP.

        I *promise* I'm not being stroppy here, but ... which FLIP is
that ><, the ``switch bytes order'' FLIP or the ``( a b c -- c b a )''
FLIP?


Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?


[snip]

Quote:
>>Peace! I must have been asleep. Anyhow, it's TUCK <--> UNDER,
>>and >< <--> FLIP.
>I *promise* I'm not being stroppy here, but ...
>which FLIP is that ><, the ``switch bytes order'' FLIP or
>the ``( a b c -- c b a )'' FLIP?

I think ( a b c -- c b a ) is more commonly named SPIN.
FLIP is more commonly the byte order reversal.

Cheers,
 Mark W. Humphries

Forth Chat Room on ICQ #37160535

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?


Quote:



>[snip]

>>>Peace! I must have been asleep. Anyhow, it's TUCK <--> UNDER,
>>>and >< <--> FLIP.

>>I *promise* I'm not being stroppy here, but ...
>>which FLIP is that ><, the ``switch bytes order'' FLIP or
>>the ``( a b c -- c b a )'' FLIP?

>I think ( a b c -- c b a ) is more commonly named SPIN.
>FLIP is more commonly the byte order reversal.

That's good to know, since I first met FLIP to flip 1 and 3 around 2.
How does >< work with 32 byte cells?

12EF -> FE21 21FE 12FE 00FE or what?



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?



Quote:

> How does >< work with 32 byte cells?

        On my system, it does the same thing that the 16 bit version does
(swaps the least byte with the next byte).

--

-GJC



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?
I'd often wondered why there was both WITHIN  (min <= n < max) and
BETWEEN (min <= n <= max), until I realized that Within was used to range
check the indexes for a Do Loop, and Between, the range of the indexes in an
array or other structure.

One of the hazards of a standard is that Words you thought  better were not
chosen. I rather like =:  instead of TO for the assignment of data to a
Value. Such is life!

Walter Rottenkolber

         ---------------------------------------------------

Quote:

>>It's OK to talk about what might have been, but assigning new names to
>>old words and especially old names for new words is VERY BAD practice.
>>WITHIN <--> WITHIN (not!), and NOT (returns 1|0) <--> NOT (returns
>>complement) are examples. TUCK <--> OVER, and <> <--> FLIP are bad
>>enough!

> OK, I surrender.  FROM-TO-JUST-LESS-THAN is is.



Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is LISP or Latin dying?

Quote:

>ROT13 is also known as "Caesar's cipher", as Gaius Julius Caesar is
>said to have used it ca. 58 B.C. to encrypt messages to his Roman
>troops.

Can't be. The Roman's didn't have the same alphabet as we have now.
There was no "k" nor "w"; and "v" and "u" were one letter. ;-)

        Bart.



Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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