been away for a long time 
Author Message
 been away for a long time

Hi folks,
Pardon me a somewhat strange question: I've been away from Forth for a
while. The last I read was "Thinking Forth" (which I still like), and the
last I used was F83 (was it 83, or 89? - a while ago anyhow). Technology
(and my requirements) changed since.

I wonder: has Forth progressed so that it is fit for creation of (web-)
server-side scripting code, web services, soap (or similar RPC), GUI
support, disclosure of source code, etc etc?

What should I read to understand the current status of development tools,
the language, and all things Forth?

TIA,
Bernd



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 04:37:07 GMT  
 been away for a long time

Quote:

> Hi folks,
> Pardon me a somewhat strange question: I've been away from Forth for a
> while. The last I read was "Thinking Forth" (which I still like), and the
> last I used was F83 (was it 83, or 89? - a while ago anyhow). Technology
> (and my requirements) changed since.

> I wonder: has Forth progressed so that it is fit for creation of (web-)
> server-side scripting code, web services, soap (or similar RPC), GUI
> support, disclosure of source code, etc etc?

> What should I read to understand the current status of development tools,
> the language, and all things Forth?

Start with the web sites of the commercial developers such as ourselves
(http://www.forth.com) and MPE (http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk), read
the features, and get a free evaluation version.  Try it, and read its
documentation.

We also offer a $15 CD containing documentation and evaluation versions
of all our cross-compilers for embedded systems, as well as some
contemporary books on Forth.

Welcome back, and good luck!

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310-491-3356
5155 W. Rosecrans Ave. #1018  Fax: +1 310-978-9454
Hawthorne, CA 90250
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 06:50:32 GMT  
 been away for a long time


Quote:
> I wonder: has Forth progressed so that it is fit
> for creation of (web-) server-side scripting code,
> web services, soap (or similar RPC), GUI
> support, disclosure of source code, etc etc?

Regarding *just* server-side scripting for web services, Forth probably
shouldn't be your first choice.  At least not unless you mind creating the
necessary support code yourself (or adapt from what scattered code others
may have done).  Others will disagree-- and these people will mostly tend to
be people who have never done any serious or large-scale web-related
programming.  You'll be told about Skip Carter doing some CGI processing in
Forth, and you'll be told about a simple web server that rides on top of
inetd from someone-- Bernd Paysan, I believe.

Forth's strengths are traditionally in embedded systems, not in web-related
programming.  Although the clever, skilled, and determined can do anything
in any language, there are often better options.



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:20:01 GMT  
 been away for a long time

[..]

Quote:
> Forth's strengths are traditionally in embedded systems, not in
web-related
> programming.  Although the clever, skilled, and determined can do anything
> in any language, there are often better options.

John,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I quite agree (including to the part that
I didn't quote above). At this point, I am only curious and may or may not
decide to use Forth for a few projects I have in mind.

With regards to server-side scripting vs embedded systems: Back in the "good
old days", "embedded systems programming" mostly meant some minimum scale
microcontroller with lots of bit-banging. As technology improves, a modern
embedded system might well use a CPU capable of many Gflops, running a real
time operating system, have build-in web server and client software, XML
parsers, etc etc.

But again, my effort here is to find the easiest method for me to determine
where Forth stands now, and I value your points.
Bernd



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:46:03 GMT  
 been away for a long time
I've spent the last three years programming for web services.. I learned of
Forth approximately a year ago, and have still not written anything useful
in it (as I haven't been able to apply it to my job).

I've looked all over the internet, lurked in newsgroups and IRC.

Bernd Paysan is the only one who has expressed activity toward web forthing.
An example httpd server (not suitable for production use):
http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/httpd-en.html

His ICFP 2002 entry uses sockets, found on: http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/

Your closest active internet application is Delta Forth .NET
http://www.dataman.ro/dforth/
I don't know how much Delta Forth impliments.

All it takes to be fit for web services is easy socket and string handling
(and database interaction doesn't hurt.)

If anyone could ever get around to it, PL-Forth could be a wonderful thing
(forth in PostgreSQL).

-Charles


Quote:
> Hi folks,
> Pardon me a somewhat strange question: I've been away from Forth for a
> while. The last I read was "Thinking Forth" (which I still like), and the
> last I used was F83 (was it 83, or 89? - a while ago anyhow). Technology
> (and my requirements) changed since.

> I wonder: has Forth progressed so that it is fit for creation of (web-)
> server-side scripting code, web services, soap (or similar RPC), GUI
> support, disclosure of source code, etc etc?

> What should I read to understand the current status of development tools,
> the language, and all things Forth?

> TIA,
> Bernd



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 15:48:23 GMT  
 been away for a long time
Quote:

> I wonder: has Forth progressed so that it is fit for creation of (web-)
> server-side scripting code, web services, soap (or similar RPC), GUI
> support, disclosure of source code, etc etc?

You should look at Eserv.
Excerpt from Eserv's page:
-  Eserv will allow you to organize in-office mail and news exchange as a local mail server
   (SMTP, IMAP4 and POP3) and a news server (NNTP)
-  In doing so, Eserv will allow you to use such standard mail programs as MS Internet Mail,
   MS Internet News, MS Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger, The Bat, etc.
-  Eserv will allow you to work with mail, news and the Internet in any operating system
   (Windows 3.1, 9x, NT/2000/XP, Unix, Mac OS, OS/2, as well as software operating on
   IP stacks in DOS)
-  Eserv will enable external Internet mail and news deliveries to and from an in-office server
-  Eserv will allow all users of a LAN to operate in the Internet through just one modem or
   another Internet connection without having to allocate an external IP address to each
computer
   in the LAN. This function is performed by a built-in proxy server
-  While working in the Internet, each user can use popular software - any browser (MS Internet
   Explorer, Netscape Navigator, Ariadna, Arena, Opera, Lynx, etc.), FTP clients (CuteFTP, FAR,
   ReGet, GetRight, etc.), programs like ICQ and AOL Instant Messenger, and practically any
other
   software through SocksCapture + Socks5
-  Eserv can operate both as an Intranet and Internet server under the HTTP protocol (a Web
   server) and the FTP protocol (a file server)
-  Eserv can distribute mail not only within the LAN, but also via the Internet or through RAS
   connections
-  Eserv can work both as a Windows NT service and a "regular" program with a Windows
   95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP user graphic interface

http://www.eserv.ru/eserv/

--
Regards
Illya Kysil, software developer
Delphi/C/C++/C#/Java/Forth/Assembler
If it is NOT SOURCE, it is NOT SOFTWARE. (C) NASA



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:32:16 GMT  
 been away for a long time

[...]

Quote:
> You should look at Eserv. [...] http://www.eserv.ru/eserv/ [...]

Illya,
Will you also explain in how far your answer relates to my question? Are you
saying all of "Eserv" has been exclusively written in Forth? If so, which
Forth package did you use?

Bernd



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:57:39 GMT  
 been away for a long time
Quote:

> Will you also explain in how far your answer relates to my question?
> Are you saying all of "Eserv" has been exclusively written in Forth?

I've forgot to say that I'm NOT THE AUTHOR of Eserv.

I've downloaded the trial version and installed it.
There are MANY Forth source files.

Quote:
> If so, which Forth package did you use?

 AFAIK the author uses SPForth.

--
Regards
Illya Kysil, software developer
Delphi/C/C++/C#/Java/Forth/Assembler
If it is NOT SOURCE, it is NOT SOFTWARE. (C) NASA



Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:41:05 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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