Complete Forth Newbie. 
Author Message
 Complete Forth Newbie.

A couple of questions -
1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??  or is
there an equivalent as good as this book is supposed to be??
2) Is there a good freeware Forth compiler available for
Win95/FBSD/Linux? o r one that is not too highly priced - still feeding
an army of hungry {*filter*}agers at home.
Why? -
I am a 25+ year  veteran in IT - mainframe with about 3 years
client/server.  I've tinkered in ANSI 'C' when I've had to, sniffed at
Smalltalk (conceptually easy to understand) been tempted by Prolog (but
no time) and been advised to look at Forth (because of my interest in
electronics - music etc.).  I have a great deal of respect for the gent
who pointed me toward Forth, so I thought I'd have a look.  Well, I
picked up a tutorial from a site on the forth webring (simple intro.)
and tried a couple of compilers from www.forth.org. According to the
tutorial, ".s" shows the contents of the stack. PFE always returned
<stack(s) empty> but GFORTH for DOS seemed to work as the tutorials
expected, so I'm using GFORTH right now. Note: PFE in FreeBSD didn't
work either.

NB.  I must say that Forth does appeal to me - I know that I can enjoy
using this language.  It's a pity this old IT dog can't put it to use
commercially - not that I can be of any use as of yet:-)



Mon, 12 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.
Quote:

>A couple of questions -
>1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??  or is
>there an equivalent as good as this book is supposed to be??

We have Starting Forth in stock.

Quote:
>2) Is there a good freeware Forth compiler available for
>Win95/FBSD/Linux? o r one that is not too highly priced - still feeding
>an army of hungry {*filter*}agers at home.

There's a free 30 day trial version of ProForth VFX on our website.
Neither ProForth VFX nor ProForth 2.2 are expensive. Both of
these come with full documentation and support. The pricelist
is also on our website.
--

MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)2380 631441, fax: +44 (0)2380 339691
web: http://www.*-*-*.com/ - free ProForth downloads!


Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:
>A couple of questions -
>1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??  or is
>there an equivalent as good as this book is supposed to be??
>2) Is there a good freeware Forth compiler available for
>Win95/FBSD/Linux? o r one that is not too highly priced - still feeding
>an army of hungry {*filter*}agers at home.
>Why? -
>I am a 25+ year  veteran in IT - mainframe with about 3 years
>client/server.  I've tinkered in ANSI 'C' when I've had to, sniffed at
>Smalltalk (conceptually easy to understand) been tempted by Prolog (but
>no time) and been advised to look at Forth (because of my interest in
>electronics - music etc.).  I have a great deal of respect for the gent

PForth has a very nice basic Forth tutorial with it, and it's by
Phil Burk and some other microtonal music weenies, and my version
of it has 160 Linux syscalls as primitives. It's related to JForth for
the Amiga, mhich Mike Haas wrote the kernel for, but he plays one of
those old wooden git-boxes. Burk was the sound guy for 3DO, or something
like that.
Mine's called upForth, but it's just PForth with Linux addenda.
ftp://linux01.gwdg.de/pub/cLIeNUX/interim/upforth.tgz

My music theory stuff, BTW, is at
http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~rhohen

"kandinski" on metalab.unc.edu somewhere is my color-organ algorithm in
PFE. Marcel Hendrix informed me that there are two non-ANSI-isms in it,
if I recall correctly. It's a static implementation though. Makes
stills.

Rick Hohensee
cLIeNUX user 0



Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:

>My music theory stuff, BTW, is at
>http://linux01.gwdg.de/~rhohen

I was disaapointed to find that the link to your 19 unique triads list was
broken.  Having myself generated some similar types of lists of possible
chords, I'd be interested in seeing that list.


Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
Question - if "Starting forth" is not ANSI Forth.  Is it worth getting
this book or will I become totally confused.
My personal felling is the book will be of value to me, however I value
input from more seasoned Forther's.
Thanks in advance.
Dave E.

Quote:

> A couple of questions -
> 1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??  or is

SNIP>


Fri, 16 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.
Quote:

>Thanks to everyone for the replies.
>Question - if "Starting forth" is not ANSI Forth.  Is it worth getting
>this book or will I become totally confused.

Starting Forth is still the best introductory text on Forth IMHO.

We have it in stock, credit cards accepted.
--

MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)2380 631441, fax: +44 (0)2380 339691
web: http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk - free ProForth downloads!



Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:

> Thanks to everyone for the replies.
> Question - if "Starting forth" is not ANSI Forth.  Is it worth getting
> this book or will I become totally confused.
> My personal felling is the book will be of value to me, however I value
> input from more seasoned Forther's.
> Thanks in advance.
> Dave E.


> > A couple of questions -
> > 1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??  or is
> SNIP>

It's a good beginner's introduction to Forth concepts, you just have to
remember that it's 15 years old and doesn't represent the current state
of Forth systems now in use.  It implies a fixed implementation strategy
that is only occasionally used nowadays, for example, and lacks mention
of text files, floating point math, and other features of ANS Forth
found in most systems.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
===============================================
Elizabeth D. Rather  (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                      +1 310-372-8493
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd.     Fax: +1 310-318-7130
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
===============================================



Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:


> > A couple of questions -
> > 1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo Brodie??

> MPE has some in stock. Probably Forth Inc., too.

> > or is there an equivalent as good as this book is supposed to be??

> Unfortunately not. The main problem of SF is that it isn't written for
> ANS Forth. There's only one book in print that is written for ANS Forth,
> that's Forth Inc.'s Handbook (you can find it on www.forth.com).

I notice that your e-mail address is a UK one. You might consider
joining FIG UK. Details of our member services are on our web site - in
particular, our lending library stocks nearly every Forth book,
including both of these.

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Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:


> > A couple of questions -
> > 1) Is there anywhere I can get Starting Forth by Leo
> > Brodie??
> MPE has some in stock. Probably Forth Inc., too.
> > or is there an equivalent as good as this book is supposed
> > to be??
> Unfortunately not. The main problem of SF is that it isn't
> written for ANS Forth. There's only one book in print that
> is written for ANS Forth, that's Forth Inc.'s Handbook (you
> can find it on www.forth.com).

   The main problem is "Starting Forth" is out of print and not
on the shelves of bookstores as it was a decade ago. The fact
that "Starting Forth" does not cover ANS Forth is a problem for
ANS Forth. Many people have told me that ANS Forth is an
improvement. I don't believe it. If Forth was improved, we would
have a selection of Forth textbooks available where ever books
on computer programming were sold, just as we did in the old
days. Take the trouble to find a copy of "Starting Forth" and
you will learn what Forth is all about. Both editions of this
book cover the important things that will not go out of date.

Quote:
> > 2) Is there a good freeware Forth compiler available for
> > Win95/FBSD/Linux? or one that is not too highly priced -
> > still feeding an army of hungry {*filter*}agers at home.
> Well, you can try Gforth (should run on all three), and
> bigFORTH (on all three, too; though you'll need Linux
> emulation for FBSD or try to port it). Both are under GPL.

     There are many freeware versions of Forth. There is little
documentation on these versions. Gforth is an exception; it has
some documentation that will let you get going after you have
studied "Starting Forth".

--



Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Complete Forth Newbie.

Quote:


> >Thanks to everyone for the replies.
> >Question - if "Starting forth" is not ANSI Forth.  Is it worth getting
> >this book or will I become totally confused.
> Starting Forth is still the best introductory text on Forth IMHO.

Starting Forth encourages you to read the book beside your computer so
that you can try things out as you go along. (Not so bad as it sounds.
You will find that there is much less to be typed in Forth than a
language like C.)

If you are using a modern ANS Forth, you might like to have an ANS
version of the exercises handy. To quote the FAQ Books:

  The exercises have also been ported to ANS Forth by Ben Hoyt, see
  ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Applications/ANS/strtfrth.txt.

Hope this helps.

--
Bye for now                       ____/  /  __  /   /   /   /   /
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Chris Jakeman                   __/    /  / __    /   /   /_/
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Voice +44 (0)1733 753489   chapter at http://forth.org.uk



Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 11 post ] 

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