Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information 
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 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

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Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

  comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions (1/6): Gen-
  eral/Misc

  ____________________________________________________________

  Table of Contents:

  1.      Acknowledgements

  2.      comp.lang.forth FAQs

  3.      General Questions

  3.1.    What is Forth?

  3.2.    Why and where is Forth used?

  3.3.    What language standards exist for Forth?

  3.4.    What is an RFI?

  3.5.    What is the Forth Interest Group?

  4.      Flame baits

  4.1.    Commercial vs. free Forth systems

  4.2.    Free Forth systems are bad for Forth.

  4.3.    Blocks vs. files

  5.      Miscellaneous

  5.1.    Where can I find a C-to-Forth compiler?

  5.2.    Where can I find a Forth-to-C compiler?

  5.3.    RECORDS in Forth?

  5.4.    Why does THEN finish an IF structure?
  ______________________________________________________________________

  1.  Acknowledgements

  This FAQ is based on previous work by Gregory Haverkamp, J. D. Verne,
  and Bradford J. Rodriguez.

  2.  comp.lang.forth FAQs

  The comp.lang.forth FAQ is published in six parts, corresponding to
  these six sections.  This part is the General/Misc FAQ, where the
  questions not covered in the other FAQs are answered. The six parts
  are:

  o  General questions < http://www.*-*-*.com/
     general.html>

  o  Online resources < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;

  o  Forth vendors <ftp://forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/vendors>

  o  Forth systems <ftp://forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/systems>

  o  Books, periodicals, tutorials <ftp://forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/books>

  o  Forth groups & organizations <ftp://forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/groups>

  These FAQs are intended to be a brief overview of the tools and
  information available for the new FORTHer.  For a historical
  reference, programming paradigms, and deep technical information try
  some of the listed references.  For general questions on the internet,
  or the methods used to get this information, try these other Usenet
  groups:

  o  news.announce.newusers

  o  news.newusers.questions

  o  news.announce.important

  3.  General Questions

  3.1.  What is Forth?

  Forth is a stack-based, extensible language without type-checking.  It
  is probably best known for its "reverse Polish" (postfix) arithmetic
  notation, familiar to users of Hewlett-Packard calculators: to add two
  numbers in Forth, you would type  3 5 +  instead of 3+5.  The
  fundamental program unit in Forth is the "word": a named data item,
  subroutine, or operator. Programming in Forth consists of defining new
  words in terms of existing ones.  The Forth statement

  ______________________________________________________________________
  : SQUARED  DUP * ;
  ______________________________________________________________________

  defines a new word SQUARED whose function is to square a number (mul-
  tiply it by itself).  Since the entire language structure is embodied
  in words, the application programmer can "extend" Forth to add new
  operators, program constructs, or data types at will.  The Forth
  "core" includes operators for integers, addresses, characters, and
  Boolean values; string and floating-point operators may be optionally
  added.

  3.2.  Why and where is Forth used?

  Although invented in 1970, Forth became widely known with the advent
  of personal computers, where its high performance and economy of
  memory were attractive.  These advantages still make Forth popular in
  embedded microcontroller systems, in locations ranging from the Space
  Shuttle to the bar-code reader used by your Federal Express driver.
  Forth's interactive nature streamlines the test and development of new
  hardware. Incremental development, a fast program-debug cycle, full
  interactive access to any level of the program, and the ability to
  work at a high "level of abstraction," all contribute to Forth's
  reputation for very high programmer productivity.  These, plus the
  flexibility and malleability of the language, are the reasons most
  cited for choosing Forth for embedded systems.

  3.3.  What language standards exist for Forth?

  An American National Standard for Forth, ANSI X3.215-1994, is accepted
  worldwide as the definitive Forth standard.  ("ANS Forth")

  IEEE Standard 1275-1994, the "Open Firmware" standard, is a Forth
  derivative which has been adopted by Sun Microsystems, HP, Apple, IBM,
  and others as the official language for writing bootstrap and driver
  firmware.

  Prior Forth standards include the Forth-83 Standard and the Forth-79
  Standard issued by the Forth Standards Team.  The earlier FIG-Forth,
  while never formally offered as such, was a de facto "standard" for
  some years.

  "FORTH STANDARDS  Published standards since 1978 are Forth 79 and
  Forth 83 from the Forth Standard Team, and ANS Forth - document
  X3.215-1994 - by the X3J14 Technical Committee.  The most recent
  standard, ANS Forth, defines a set of core words and some optional
  extensions and takes care to allow great freedom in how these words
  are implemented.  The range of hardware which can support an ANS Forth
  Standard System is far wider than any previous Forth standard and
  probably wider than any programming language standard ever. See web
  page  < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ; for latest
  details. Copies of the standard cost $193, but the final draft of ANS
  Forth is free and available (subject to copyright restrictions) via
  ftp..." --Chris Jakeman, apvpeter.demon.co.uk

  The (un)official ANS Forth document is available in various formats at
  < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ; and at
  <ftp://ftp.uu.net/vendor/minerva/x3j14/>

  To get yourself on the ANS-Forth mailing list, consult the various
  README files at  <ftp://ftp.uu.net/vendor/minerva/x3j14/>.

  Two unofficial test suites are available for checking conformance to
  the ANS Standard Forth:

  o  John Hayes has written a test suite to test ANS Standard Systems
     (available through  < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;).

  o  JET Thomas has written a test suite to test ANS Standard Programs:
     <ftp://forth.org/pub/Forth/ANS/stand4th.zip>

  3.4.  What is an RFI?

  A Request For Interpretation. If you find something in the standard
  document ambiguous or unclear, you can make an RFI, and the TC
  (technical committee), that produced the standard, will work out a

  and labeling it as RFI. The answers to earlier RFIs are available at
  ftp://ftp.uu.net/vendor/minerva/x3j14/queries/.

  3.5.  What is the Forth Interest Group?

  The Forth Interest Group "FIG" was formed in 1978 to disseminate
  information and popularize the Forth language, and it remains the
  premier organization for professional Forth programmers.  FIG
  maintains a Web page at  < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;, with a
  more complete introduction to the Forth language, and links to the Web
  pages of many Forth vendors.

  4.  Flame baits

  Some statements spawn long and heated discussions where the
  participants repeat their positions and ignore the arguments of the
  other side (flame wars). You may want to avoid such statements.

  Here, I present some regularly appearing flame baits and the positions
  you will read (so you don't have to start a flame war to learn them).

  4.1.  Commercial vs. free Forth systems

  "You get what you pay for. With a commercial Forth you get commercial
  documentation and support. We need commercial Forth systems or Forth
  will die."

  "I have had good experiences with free Forths. I cannot afford a
  commercial Forth system. I want source code (some commercial vendors
  don't provide it for the whole system). Examples of bad support from
  commercial software vendors. Without free Forth systems Forth will
  die."

  4.2.  Free Forth systems are bad for Forth.

  "Anyone can write a bad Forth and give it away without documentation
  or support; after trying such a system, nobody wants to work with
  Forth anymore. Free Forths give Forth a bad name. Free Forths take
  business away from the vendors."

  "Many people learned Forth with fig-Forth. There are good free Forths.
  Most successful languages started with (and still have) free
  implementations. Languages without free implementations (like Ada,
  Eiffel and Miranda) are not very popular."

  4.3.  Blocks vs. files

  The discussions on this topic are much cooler since Mike Haas has
  dropped from comp.lang.forth.

  "Everyone is using files and all third-party tools are designed for
  files. Files waste less space. Blocks lead to horizontal, unreadable
  code. Blocks make Forth ridiculous."

  "We are not always working under an operating system, so on some
  machines we don't have files. We have very nice block editors and
  other tools and coding standards for working with blocks (e.g., shadow
  screens)."

  5.  Miscellaneous

  5.1.  Where can I find a C-to-Forth compiler?

  There have been roumors about such a compiler at Harris (for the RTX
  chip) and elsewhere. The most concrete answer to this question has

  MPE has produced a C to stack-machine compiler. This generates tokens
  for a 2-stack virtual machine. The code quality is such that the token
  space used by compiled programs is better than that of the commercial
  C compilers we have tested against. This a consequence of the virtual
  machine design.  However, to achieve this the virtual machine design
  has local variable support.

  The tokens can then be back end interpreted, or translated to a Forth
  system. The translater can be written in high level Forth, and is
  largely portable, except for the target
...

read more »



Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part3
Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

Archive-name: forth/FAQ/vendors
Comp-lang-forth-archive-name: vendors-faq
Last-modified: 4 Mar 1996
Version: 1.01
Posting-Frequency: monthly

        comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions, part 3 of 6
                             Forth Vendors

         Send all Corrections, Additions, and/or Deletions to:

These firms are primarily software, systems and support

  FirmWorks; Mitch Bradley;  415 917-0100
     480 San Antonio Rd,  Ste 115; Mountain View; CA  94040; USA

     Specialists in IEEE Std 1275  Boot Firmware

  Forth Interest Group; John D. Hall;  510 893-6784
     PO Box 2154; Oakland; CA  94621; USA

     Literature & Software Source

  FORTH, Inc; Elizabeth Rather;   800  553-6784
     111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. Ste 300   ; Manhattan Beach; CA  90266; USA

     Other services include 5-day courses in introductory and

  FORTH, Inc; Steve Agarwal;   800  553-6784
     111 N. Sepulveda Blvd. Ste 300   ; Manhattan Beach; CA  90266; USA

     More than 9 cross-development targets

  Laboratory Microsystems, Inc. (LMI); Ray Duncan;   310  306-7412
     PO Box 10430, Marina del Rey, CA 90295   ; Los Angeles; CA  90066; USA
     UR/FORTH (16-bit), 80386 UR/FORTH (32-bit), WinForth, LMI   ;

     WinForth, LMI Forth-83 Metacompiler

  MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd.; Stephen Pelc;  +44 1703 631441
     133 Hill Lane   ; Southampton; --  SO15 5AF   ; England

     Large range of cross compilers

  Miller Microcomputer Services; A. Richard Miller;   508  653-6136
     61 Lake Shore Road   ; Natick; MA  01760-2099   ; USA

     MMSFORTH and many application modules are available in native

  Mountain View Press, Division of Epsilon Lyra, Inc.; Glen Haydon;   415  747-0760
     Star Rt 2  Box 429; La Honda; CA  94020-9726   ; USA
     MVP Forth   (which I wrote)and other public domain   ;

     Literature & Software

  MP7; Marc Petremann;  (33) 1 43 03 40 36
     17, allee de la Noiseraie; F - 93160 NOISY LE GRAND;   ; France

  Offete Enterprises, Inc.; C.H. Ting;   415  574-8250
     1306 South B St.; San Mateo; CA  94402; USA

     Books & Software for figForth, F83, FPC etc

These Firms are primarily hardware vendors

  Ampro Computers Inc.; ;  408  522-4825
     990 Almanor Ave.; Sunnyvale; CA  94086; USA

     SBC

  Inovative Integration; James Henderson;   818  865-6150
     31352 Via Colinas  #101; Westlake Village; CA  91362; USA
      ;  ;   fax:  818  879-1770
     TMS320C31, C32, C25, C44

  Mosaic Industries, Inc; Patrick Campbell;   510  790-1255
     5437 Central Ave  Ste 1; Newark; CA  94560; USA
     " ";  ;   fax: 510  790-0925
     QED SBC

  Saelig Company; Alan Lowne;   716  425-3753
     1193 Moseley Rd.; Victor; NY  14564; USA

     Rep for Triangle Data Svs

  Silicon Composers Inc.; George Nicol;   415  961-8778
     655 W. Evelyn Ave. #7; Mountain View; CA  94041; USA
     " ";  ;   fax: 415  961-6778
     RTX 2000 & SC32 boards

  Triangle Digital Services Ltd.; Peter Rush;  +44-181-539-0285
     223 Lea Bridge Road; London; UK  E1O 7NE; England

     SBC w/ on board Forth

  Vesta Technology, Inc; Cyndi Reish;   303  422-8088
     7100 W. 44th Ave  Ste 101; Wheat Ridge; CO  80033; USA
     Forth-83+;  ;   fax:  303  422-9800
     SBC w/ Forth in ROM

These Firms are primarily custom consulting

  4th Wave Computers Ltd.; Peter Caven;   905  335-6844
     2314 Cavendish Drive   ; Burlington; ON  L7P 3P3; Canada

     Custom SW Development in Forth & C

  A Working Hypothesis, Inc; Paul Frenger;   713  293-9484
     PO Box 820506; Houston; TX  77282; USA

  AM Research; Albert Mitchell;   800  949-8051
     4600 Hidden Oaks Lane; Loomis; CA  95650-9479; USA

     8051, 6811 & 80C166  Forth Dev Systems

  Bernd Paysan; Bernd Paysan;  ++49 89 798557
     Stockmannstr. 14   ; 81477 Muenchen; FRG     ; Germany

     Object Oriented

  Blue Star Systems; Mike Warot;
     PO Box 4043; Hammond; IN  46324; USA

     A direct threaded implementation of forth for OS/2 text mode, 32 bit

  Compu{*filter*}, Inc.; Boris Bibershtein;   416  733-1630
     PO Box 3182; North York; ON  M2M 3A6; Canada
     DOS;  ;   fax:
     both F-PC and LMI Forth

  Delta Research; Phil Burk;   415  453-4320
     PO Box 151051; San Rafael; CA  94915; USA

     JForth is a subroutine thread Forth for Amiga.

  Frank Sergeant; Frank C. Sergeant;
     809 W. San Antonio St.   ; San Marcos; TX  78666; USA

     I am recommending and/or using Pygmy or one of my specialized

  Frog Peak Music; Larry Polansky;   603  448-8837
     PO Box A36   ; Hanover; NH  03755; USA

     HMSL is a set of music related Forth extensions based on

  L Squared Electronics; L. G. Lisle;  910  924-0629
     2160 Foxhunter Ct.; Winston-Salem; NC  27106; USA

     Engineering consulting using Forth for industry

  Michael Hore; Michael Hore;  +61-2-557-5836
     54 Frederick St   ; Sydenham; NSW  02044; Australia

     Mops is a PD OOP system

  Redshift Limited; Charlie Springer;   206  564-3315
     726 No. Locust Lane; Tacoma; WA  98406; USA

     A simple 32 bit indirect threaded Forth for ARM

  Rob Chapman; Rob Chapman;   403  430-2605
     11120-178 st.; Edmonton; AB  T5S 1P2; Canada

  Science Applications International Corp.; Norman Smith;   615  482-9031
     301 Laboratory Road   ; Oak Ridge; TN  37831; USA

     Write Your Own Programming Lang. w/ C++

  T-Recursive Technology; B.J. Rodriguez;  905  308-3698
     221 King St. East, Suite 32   ; Hamilton; ON  L8N 1B5   ; Canada

     Contract programming & hardware design for small/embedded systems

  TOS Systems Inc.; Roger Stern;   617  431-2456
     PO Box 81-128; Wellesley; MA  02181; USA

     Software & Hardware Consulting

  Transport Control Technology Ltd.; Paul Bennett;  +44 (0) 117-9499861
     7 Broadfield Ave,  Kingswood; Bristol;   BS15 1HX; UK

     Company Emphasizes Safety Critical Systems

  Ultra Technology; Jeff Fox;   510  848-2149
     2510 10th St.; Berkekey; CA  94710; USA

     I do consulting on systems besides MuP21 and F21,



Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part4
Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

         comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions, part 4 of 6
         Forth Systems: Commercial, Shareware, and Freeware

                     Stephen J. Bevan, 19 Sept 1995
                     Bradford J. Rodriguez, 7 Feb 1996
                     Jon D. Verne, 1 Mar 1996


[This FAQ is adopted in its entirety from the "implementations" FAQ produced
by Stephen J. Bevan, last updated September 1995.  Thanks Stephen!  -bjr]

------------------------------

Table of Contents:
  [1] Forth for the 8051/8031
  [2] Forth for a PC
  [3] 32-bit protected-mode PC Forth
  [4] Forth for Windows (3.1/NT/95)
  [5] Forth for OS/2
  [6] Forth for the 6811/68HC16
  [7] Forth written in C
  [8] Forth for UNIX
  [9] Forth for a Sun
 [10] Forth for a MAC
 [11] Forth for an Amiga
 [12] Forth for an Atari ST
 [13] Forth for a Transputer
 [14] Forth for a Tandy TRS-80
 [15] Forth for the Apple II
 [16] Forth for 68000 boards (including cross development from PCs)
 [17] Forth for (miscellaneous) DSP chips
 [18] Forth for VMS
 [19] Forth for playing with Music
 [20] PD/ShareWare Forth for the BrouHaHa-7245
 [21] Forth that isn't necessarily Forth
 [22] Forth Vendors/Authors
 [23] Contributors to the FAQ

Search for [#] to get to section number '#' quickly.  Please note that the
sections are in "digest" form so cooperating NEWS/MAIL readers can step
through the sections easily.

Recent Changes:
  95-07-22 bevan   Added wpforth listing.
  95-07-22 bevan   Added OOF listing.
  95-07-22 bevan   Added Ale Forth listing.
  95-07-22 bevan   Added gforth description.
  95-08-07 bevan   Updated 51forth address.
  95-08-07 bevan   Added author for Pygmy Forth.
  95-08-07 bevan   Added MacQForth entry.
  95-09-13 bevan   Updated New Micros address information.
  95-09-19 bevan   Updated Apple II info. wrt LWV latest Apple II catalogue.
  96-01-01 bjr     Changed taygeta path.
  96-03-01 jdv     Added TURBO-Forth listing.  Editted duplicate info.
  96-04-01 jdv     Cut & pasted.  Updated Gforth listings.
  96-05-01 jdv     Updated MacForth listing.
  96-06-15 jdv     Removed stale DSP listings.
  96-06-19 jdv     Updated FORTH, Inc., MVP, & Pocket Forth info

Please Note:
  1. Some of these Forth systems are listed as being available from particular
     anonymous ftp addresses, or from "good archives".  Please try and use as
     close a site to you as possible.
  2. Most of the vendors mentioned herein can supply a Forth system for a wide
     variety of platforms.  If you can't find a Forth system for your platform
     explicitly listed, try any/all of the vendors listed.
  3. If an entry is short it is probably because the system is available on
     more than one machine.  Company addresses, and contact information are in
     section [22], below.
  4. You may quote from this FAQ freely, on the one condition that credit is
     given to the contributors.  Some terms mentioned in this document are
     known to be trademarks or service marks.  However, the author(s) have
     made no real attempt to mark them as such.  The reader should contact the
     appropriate companies for complete information regarding trademarks and
     registration.  'Nuff said.

------------------------------

Subject: [1] Forth for the 8051/8031

  Commercial:
    AM Research offer amrFORTH; a cross-development system for the 8051 that
      features a kernel of less than 700 bytes.

    FORTH, Inc.: chipFORTH; an interactive cross-development tool for
      embedded systems.

    Laboratory Microsystems, Inc. (LMI) sell an 8051 system.

    Mikrap and Forth Systeme sell SwissForth and act as agents for LMI.

    MicroProcessor Engineering, Ltd. (MPE) offer the Forth5 Cross Compiler.

    Offete: 8051 eForth, C. H. Ting.  A small ROM based Forth system with
      source code in MASM for $25.

  Free:
    William H. Payne, the author of "Embedded Controller Forth for the
      8051 Family", has made all the code for the system described in his book
      available.  Please see ftp://asterix.inescn.pt/pub/forth/8051/read51.txt

    EFORTH51.ZIP may be downloaded free of charge from the RealTime
      Control and Forth Board (RCFB) [see] or from the GEnie Forth Interest
      Group RoundTable.

    51forth is a subroutine threaded Forth by Scott Gehmlich.
      ftp://fims-ftp.massey.ac.nz/pub/GMoretti/51forth.zip  [APH:950807]

    CamelForth/51 by Brad Rodriguez is an ANSI Standard Forth that is free for
      non-commercial work (negotiate with the author if you want to use it in
      a commercial product).
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Camel/cam51-11.zip  [SJB:950721]

------------------------------

Subject: [2] Forth for a PC

  Commercial:
    FORTH, Inc.: polyFORTH; Real-time system for DOS computers, including
    libraries for math, graphics, database, GUIs, and many other functions.

    Harvard Softworks sells HS/FORTH that can link with object files.  It
      makes full use of extended memory, and comes with an optimizer, sound,
      graphics, and 8087 libraries.

    MicroMotion: MasterFORTH. [see also: 15]

    Miller Microcomputer Services (MMS) offer MMSFORTH V2.5 for systems with
      and without DOS.

    MPE: PC PowerForth Plus v3.2 and Modular Forth v3.6.

    LMI offer PC/FORTH, in 16- and 32-bit implementations.  They provide
      libraries for telecommunications, 8087 support, custom characters,
      target compiler, and more.  Also: 8080 FORTH, and 8086 FORTH.

    MP7: TURBO-Forth.  Four versions optimized for specific CPU's.  Also:
      FASTGRAF; an I/O and graphics package for TURBO-Forth.  [JDV:960216]

  Free:
    eForth is a very portable, ANS-aligned, public-domain Forth that comes
      with all sources and only 29 words in assembler. [see also: 1, 3, 8]

    Golden Porcupine Forth, v92.5 by Alexandr Larionov.  Distributed as
      FREEWARE, with Russian docs, for non-commercial work.  Includes various
      useful libraries for graphics, sound &etc.  Follows the Forth-83
      Standard.  Phone: 7 095 288-2660.  [VPF:93]

    Pygmy Forth v1.4 is a small, 16-bit DOS Forth written by Frank Sergeant
      that is modeled after Chuck Moore's cmFORTH for NOVIX.  It is shareware
      but there is no charge for registration.  If you DO choose to register,
      there is a Bonus Disk with goodies for ~$20.  Complete with documented
      source code, editor, assembler, and metacompiler.

    MVP-FORTH, a Forth-79 from Mountain View Press, Inc. (MVP), is freely
      available for different platforms.  MVP also offer other commercial
      Forth systems, information, and books.

    TCOM v2.5 by Tom Zimmer is a 16-bit cross/metacompiler for DOS.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/tcom25.zip  [SJB:950720]

    F-PC v3.6 is a 16-bit Forth that is based on the Forth-83 standard but
      includes numerous extensions.  Very complete implementation.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/fpc36.zip
      http://www.efn.org/~fwarren/fpc.html  [SJB:950722]

    hForth v0.9.5 by Wonyong Koh is an ANS Forth inspired by eForth.  This
      free beta release is ANS compliant, and all commented MASM source code
      is included.  There are three hForth models to choose from: A standard
      EXE (for segmented memory machines), RAM (for any other RAM-only
      system), and ROM (for small embedded systems).  The author asserts that
      it is very easy to optimize for any specific CPU.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/hf86v09.zip  [SJB:950720]

    wpforth v1.0 by Albert Chan is a prototype of a typographical programming
      system built around WordPerfect v5.x and Pygmy Forth v1.4.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/wpforth.zip  [SJB:950722]

    The following are available in any SIMTEL mirror site:
      4thcmp21.zip: Native code Forth compiler: COM, EXE, SYS, TSR, ROM
      bbl_[ab].zip: Fast 16/32-bit Forth based on F83 -- needs work
      zen1_10.zip:  Forth with source to match ANS X3J14, BASIS 10
      min4th25.zip: MiniForth system v2.5, with A86 source
      uniforth.zip: Sampler of floating point Forth compiler
      fig86.zip:    Original Fig-86 Forth compiler  [SJB:931030]

------------------------------

Subject: [3] 32-bit protected-mode PC Forth

  Commercial:
    Bradley Forthware sells Forthmacs for $250.  Price includes source
      and DOS extender.

    FORTH, Inc.: polyFORTH. [see]

    Harvard Softworks has a version of HS/FORTH that provides access to a
      full, flat 4Gb of memory.  [JVN:93]

    LMI sell a 32-bit protected-mode Forth called 80386 UR/FORTH.  It runs on
      DOS and is based on the 'Phar Lap' DOS Extender. It is fully compatible
      with XMS, EMS, and DPMI memory managers.

    MPE ProForth for DOS, v2.0.

    Offete has a protected-mode 32-bit eForth that comes with source code and
      a public domain DOS extender.

    bigFORTH by Bernd Paysan. [see]

  Free:
    eForth is available as a 32-bit port by Andy Valencia.  [see also: 8]

    FROTH is a free 32-bit Forth system, with source, available on Taygeta.

    Gforth v0.1b is a GNU C-forth for Linux/DOS.  [see also: 7, 8]

    OOF is an object-oriented 32-bit Forth System written by Zsoter Andras.
      It does not use a threaded paradigm, and generates native machine code.
      Although many ANS Forth programs will run on OOF, it is not fully ANS
      Forth compliant.  All source is under the GNU General Public License.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/oof.zip  [SJB:940722]

    Ale Forth by Johns Lutz Sammer.  Implements ANS Basis 17 wordset along
      with lots of extensions.  Supports subroutine threading, native code
      generation and inline words.
      ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Reviewed/alefth.zoo  [SJB:940722]
...

read more »



Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part6
Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

        comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions, part 6 of 6
                      Forth Groups & Organizations

                   Bradford J. Rodriguez, 7 Feb 1996

We are currently seeking a volunteer to maintain this FAQ.  Please

Please send additions, deletions, or changes to Brad Rodriguez

------------------------------

Subject: Table of Contents

  [1] Forth Organizations
  [2] FIG Chapters
  [3] Forth Conferences

NOTE: this FAQ is in the early stages of construction.  Contributions
and suggestions are welcome.

------------------------------

Subject: [1] Forth Organizations

Forth Interest Group (FIG)
   P.O. Box 2154
   Oakland, CA 94621 USA
   telephone: 510-893-6784 (510-89-FORTH)
   fax: 510-535-1295

   <http://www.forth.org/fig.html>
   Membership in FIG is US$40 per year (before March 1st), plus an
   additional US$15 per year for foreign members.  This includes a
   subscription to the bimonthly magazine Forth Dimensions.  FIG holds
   the annual FORML conference.

FIG-UK
   The UK Chapter of the Forth Interest Group publishes its own
   Forthwrite magazine 6 times a year, maintains an extensive lending
   library of books and periodicals (including Forth Dimensions, JOFAR
   and FORML) with a number of items on disk too.

   Meetings with invited speakers are held 4 times a year at the South
   Bank University, London.

   To join (at only 10 pounds a year, you can't afford not to :-)
   contact Doug Neale on 0181 542 2747 or by post to:
        58 Woodland Way
        MORDEN
        Surrey
        SM4 4DS

Institute for Applied Forth Research
   70 Elmwood Avenue
   Rochester, NY  14611  USA
   telephone 716-235-0168

   Publishes the peer-reviewed Journal of Forth Application and
   Research, and holds the annual Rochester Forth Conference.

Association for Computing Machinery (SIGForth)
   ACM's Special Interest Group on Forth has been absorbed into ACM
   SIGPlan, the Special Interest Group on Programming Languages.

------------------------------

Subject: [2] FIG Chapters

[This section is under revision.  If you have information about an
active FIG chapter, please send it to the FAQ maintainer.]

CALIFORNIA
  North Bay Chapter
    Meets monthly, 2nd Sat., at BMUG, 2055 Center Street, Berkeley (1/2
    block from Berkeley BART station).  Tutorial at noon, meeting at 1

CANADA
  Southern Ontario Chapter
    Meets quarterly, 1st Sat. of March/June/Dec., 2nd Sat. of Sept.,
    2 pm, at McMaster University, General Science Building, Rm. 301,
    Hamilton, Ontario.  Contact Dr. N. Solntseff, 905-525-9140 x.23443,

UNITED KINGDOM
  see "FIG-UK" listing under "[1] Forth Organizations"

------------------------------

Subject: [3] Forth Conferences

Rochester Forth Conference
   The Rochester Forth Conference is held in (or near) the Eastern U.S.
   every June.  This year's conference, the 16th annual, will be held
   from June 19-22 at Ryerson Polytechnic University in Toronto,
   Ontario, Canada.  The conference theme is "Open Systems" and papers
   are being solicited.  Direct inquiries to the Program Chair, Nicholas

   WWW page: <http://maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca/~ns/96roch.html>

EuroForth Conference
   The EuroForth Conference is held in various European countries,
   usually in late October or early November.  The 1996 conference is
   scheduled to be held October 4-7 in St. Petersburg, Russia.

FORML Conference
   The FORML Conference is held at the Asilomar Conference Center in
   California every November.

Other Forth conferences have been held in Australia and China.



Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part2
Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.


Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Followup-To: comp.lang.forth
Subject: comp.lang.forth FAQ: online (1 Apr 1996), part 2/6

Archive-name: forth/FAQ/online
Comp-lang-forth-archive-name: online-faq
Last-modified: 1 Apr 1996
Version: 1.00
Posting-Frequency: monthly

Send additions, deletions, or changes to

  The Forth Online Resources Quick-Ref Card Listing
  -------------------------------------------------
  WWW version: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/forl.html

  A detailed hardcopy version with additional data
  is available in Forth Dimensions magazine (below).
  -------------------------------------------------

  --Bulletin Boards--
Arcane Incantations                617-899-6672
Art of Programming BBS             604-826-9663
Bitter Butter Better BBS           503-691-7938
Gold Country Forth BBS             916-652-7117
LMI Forth BBS                      310-306-3530
MindLink                           (604) 528-3500  Telnet: mindlink.bc.ca
RCFB "The Rocky Coast Free Board"  303.278.0364
The FROG Pond BBS                  716/461-1924

  --FTP Sites--
ANS Forth x3j14
  ftp://ftp.uu.net

Asterix Forth archive
  ftp://asterix.inescn.pt/pub/forth

Brain
  ftp://brain.physics.swin.oz.au

Cygnus Support Ftp Service
  ftp://ftp.cygnus.com

David N. Williams
  ftp://williams.physics.lsa.umich.edu/pub/forth

Dwight Elvey
  ftp://hal.com/pub/elvey

Fare's FTP site, FORTH subsection
  ftp://frmap711.mathp7.jussieu.fr/pub/scratch/rideau/

Hewlett Packard
  ftp://col.hp.com/mirrors/Forth

Marcel Hendrix
  ftp://iaehv.iaehv.nl/pub/users/mhx

Microtronix
  ftp://ftp.microtronix.com/pub/forth

Robert Jay Brown
  ftp://eli.wariat.org/pub/forth

SimTel
  ftp://ftp.coast.net/SimTel/msdos/forth

Yerk
  ftp://astro.uchicago.edu/pub/MAC/Yerk

  --FTP/Web Sites--
Institut fr Computersprachen
  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/projects/forth.html

Ron's Mac and Apple II archive
  http://141.106.68.98/ or ftp:/141.106.68.98/

Skip Carter's Forth Page
  http://www.forth.org/forth.html

The Mops Page
  http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/mops.html

University of Bremen
  http://ftp.uni-bremen.de/FTP/ftp.html

  --Internet Mailing Lists--
MISC mailing list

The Win32For mailing list

  --Electronic Mailboxes--
ANSForth Mail Group

FIG - Forth Interest Group







FORTH Gesellschaft - German Forth users' group

LMI Technical Support

Miller Microcomputer Services

PYGMY Forth - Frank Sergeant

The Forth Online Resources Survey

  --Newsgroups, Conferences, et. al--
comp.lang.forth
  ftp://asterix.inescn.pt/pub/forth/news/

CompuServe Forth Forum
  (type) GO FORTH

GEnie Information Services (GEIS)
  800-638-9636.

  --World Wide Web--
1996 Rochester Conference
  http://maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca/~ns/96roch.htmlx

Alaric B. Williams
  http://www.hardcafe.co.uk/Alaric/os.htm

ATLAST
  http://www.fourmilab.ch

Bernd Paysan's Web site
  http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/cgi-bin/nph-gateway/hphalle2/~pa...

Cimprovisor
  http://www.asi.bc.ca/asi/affiliates/cimprovisor/cimhome.html

euroFORTH
  http://www.paisley.ac.uk/~cis/euro

FIG home page
  http://www.forth.org/fig.html

Forth Bibliography (Mirrored)
  http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/bibliography/Compiler/forth.html

FORTH, Inc. Home Page
  http://www.earthlink.net/~forth

F-PC Homepage
  http://www.efn.org/~fwarren/fpc.html

Frank Sergeant
  http://www.eskimo.com/~pygmy

Immersive Systems, Inc.
  http://www.immersive.com

Internet Hot List List - Forth
  http://www.cera.com/forth.htm

Jeff Fox's Home Page
  http://www.dnai.com/~jfox

Jumbo
  http://www.jumbo.com/prog/dos/forth/

Laboratory Microsystems Inc.
  http://www.cerfnet.com/~lmi

Learning Forth Page
  http://sherman.pas.rochester.edu/Forth/forth.html

Leo Brodie Services
  http://www.pacificrim.net/~lbrodie/lbs.html

New Micros Inc
  http://www.newmicros.com/systems

Nick Francesco's Forth Page
  http://raptor.rit.edu/Nick/forth.htm

Open FirmWare
  http://www.firmworks.com

Paisley Forth Page
  http://www.paisley.ac.uk/~cis/forth/index.html

Patriot Scientific Corporation
  http://www.ptsc.com

Phil Koopman's Forth Mini-Page
  http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~koopman

Pocket Forth Home Page
  http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/pocket.html

Roger Ivie
  http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/

The Computer Journal
  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/

The TUNES project
  http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/rideau/Tunes/

Tom Almy - ForthCMP
  http://www.teleport.com/~almy

Tout sur le Forth en France
  http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mp7

Triangle Digital Services Ltd
  http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/triangle

WebBook
  http://webbook.com

Quote:
>From Forth Dimensions XVII No.4  Nov/Dec 1995

 =================================
 current FIG address/contact info:
 =================================
  Forth Interest Group
  P.O. Box 2154
  Oakland, California 94621

  telephone: 510-893-6784
  fax: 510-535-1295

  Forth Interest Group home page:
    http://www.forth.org/fig.html



Sun, 21 Mar 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Quote:

> Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
> Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part1
> Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

>   comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions (1/6): Gen-
>   eral/Misc


altavoz: FORTH is dead cause of the stupid, narrow minded
people who supposedly DEFEND it.

To save F' we need to put a "user shell" around it so novices
can use it . the shell would force them to do things in an
efficient manner . Because , as we all know F' allows you
so much freedom , you take too long to learn it.
 Now here comes the FLAMER FORTH FANATICS saying " if you're
not an expert , dont use F' .
 We're talking ease of use and learning , even for a expert
programmer , F' gives you so much freedom , the learning curve
is too long .

The stupid coded inner interpreter is another big mistake.
Why do i want my s/w to run 1/3 as fast as asm code just to
make some traditional thinking F' author happy ?
  Well, you can write a "post compiler" to get around that
and run F' at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED AS ASM CODE !!

I have never talked to an open minded FORTH programmer .

______End of text  from altavoz___________



Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Quote:


> > Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.001)
> > Archive-name: computer-lang/forth-faq/part1
> > Posting-Frequency: Monthly.  A how-to-find-the-FAQ article is posted weekly.

> >   comp.lang.forth Frequently Asked Questions (1/6): Gen-
> >   eral/Misc

> altavoz: FORTH is dead cause of the stupid, narrow minded
> people who supposedly DEFEND it.

> To save F' we need to put a "user shell" around it so novices
> can use it . the shell would force them to do things in an
> efficient manner . Because , as we all know F' allows you
> so much freedom , you take too long to learn it.
>  Now here comes the FLAMER FORTH FANATICS saying " if you're
> not an expert , dont use F' .
>  We're talking ease of use and learning , even for a expert
> programmer , F' gives you so much freedom , the learning curve
> is too long .

> The stupid coded inner interpreter is another big mistake.
> Why do i want my s/w to run 1/3 as fast as asm code just to
> make some traditional thinking F' author happy ?
>   Well, you can write a "post compiler" to get around that
> and run F' at EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED AS ASM CODE !!

> I have never talked to an open minded FORTH programmer .

Did you want a response, or were you just venting?

Open Minded



Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Forth Programming Language FAQ: Part 1 of 6, General Information

Quote:
> altavoz: FORTH is dead cause of the stupid, narrow minded
> people who supposedly DEFEND it.

Forht is not popular as it was before, especially in the PC
world. But it is not (yet?) dead. There are still many devices
(watches, PDAs, washing machines, satellites, and so on.)
where it is very useful.

It is however striking to notice that all books on Forth have
been published in the eighties (or earlier). This is the sign
of a very serious trouble.

Quote:
> The stupid coded inner interpreter is another big mistake.

Having an inner interpreter gives Forth an impressive flexibility.
Other languages with such a flexibility, like Common Lisp, have
an inner interpreter too (even if they also have an incremental
compiler).

IMO, a very important factor of the decrease of popularity of Forth
in the PC world, is that, for a very long time there was no (or very
few) Windows developpment environnments. Win32Forth is an impressive
effort in this direction. Thanks a lot to its authors!

Currently, most PC applications are 80% user interface and 20% "real"
program. The easier the devloppment of the user interface is, the easier
it is to develop new applications. This is what explains the success of
tools like Visual Basic, despite the crudeness of the language. I suspect
that it is very important for the Forth Community to create one (or several)
affordable Visual Forth packages.

Emmanuel Baechler
Chemin du Stade 4
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland



Sun, 25 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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