Help to start 8031 forth 
Author Message
 Help to start 8031 forth

Quote:

> I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
> experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
> I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
> where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
> appreciated.
> Big Mal from down under.

Here is the address of the Forth taygeta archive;

http://www.*-*-*.com/

Here are two possibilities I found there, both relate to
the 8051, which I believe is similar to the 8031.

ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Camel/
ftp://taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Archive/8051/

I hope these help,

Tom Zimmer



Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

Try the Forth FAQ at the following URL:

   ftp://ftp.forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/

I think forthfaq.4 has the information on Forth implementations for the
8051/8031 family.

--

Finnigan Corporation            
2215 Grand Avenue Parkway        Tel: (512) 251-1574
Austin, TX  78728-3812           Fax: (512) 251-1547

Quote:

> I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
> experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
> I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
> where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
> appreciated.
> Big Mal from down under.



Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
appreciated.
Big Mal from down under.



Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

Quote:

> I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
> experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
> I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
> where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
> appreciated.

If your need is related to a commercial project (i.e., you have a budget)
we offer a professional cross-compiler for 8051 family, with a PC host.

See our web site (addres below) for details.
--
===============================================
Elizabeth D. Rather              1-800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         310-372-8493
111 N. Sepulveda Blvd.        Fax: 310-318-7130
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266
http://websites.earthlink.net/~forth

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
===============================================



Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

Quote:

> I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
> experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
> I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
> where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
> appreciated.

Hi, Malcolm, you're in luck.  The 8031/51 is one of the examples I chose
for my "educational" Forth, CamelForth.  The source code for CamelForth
is available at <ftp://ftp.forth.org/pub/Forth/Camel/>.  You may also be
interested in the accompanying eight-part article, "Moving Forth", which
was published in The Computer Journal issues #59, 60, 62, 64, 67, 69, 71,
and 72.  The first four issues describe in general terms how to port
Forth to a new processor.  The last four issues are mostly source
listings, so they may be of limited value once you've downloaded the 8051
code.  See TCJ's Web page (below) or email me for more info.

--

                 This brain for rent -- inquire within.
Contributing Editor, The Computer Journal... http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
Director, Forth Interest Group........... http://www.forth.org/fig.html



Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth



Quote:
> I have plenty of experience with 8031 and assemblers and had some
> experience years ago using forth with a 6800 and a D2 kit.
> I desperately want to get an 8031 forth up and running and don't know
> where to start. Any help with experienced forth users would be much
> appreciated.

MPE's Forth cross compiler includes both single chip and expanded models
of Forth, plus multitasking, front end (IDE), manuals, support, and all
the benefits of a supported package. For more details ask at the addresses
below.
--

MicroProcessor Engineering - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 1703 631441, fax: +44 1703 339691


Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

A 8051 Forth is available at ftp://asterix.inescn.pt/pub/forth/8051/. Do refer to FAQ at
ftp://ftp.forth.org/pub/Forth/FAQ/.
While I've got a copy of 8051 Forth & William Payne's book Embedded Controller Forth,
I'm still unable to start.
I'll appreaciate help to design a 8051 single board computer that will work with Forth,
and help to get started in Forth programming for 8051 using Forth by Payne.
Many thanks.

David Pau



Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

Quote:

> I'll appreaciate help to design a 8051 single board computer that will work with Forth,
> and help to get started in Forth programming for 8051 using Forth by Payne.

There is one important hardware feature which you will need for most 8051
Forths: you must have some writable RAM in the Program memory space.  
Since the 8051 can't write to Program space, this means you'll have to
have some RAM appear in BOTH the Program and Data spaces.  This can be
done most easily by ANDing the signals PSEN\ and RD\, and using this as
the read signal to your RAM chip.  (This modification to a Blue Ridge
Micros 8051 board was published in The Computer Journal #71.)

Note that if you only had one ROM and one RAM, you may now need some
address decoding logic.

Sorry, I haven't used Payne's 8051 Forth, so I can't offer any software
advice.

--

                 This brain for rent -- inquire within.
Contributing Editor, The Computer Journal... http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
Director, Forth Interest Group........... http://www.forth.org/fig.html



Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

[...]

Quote:
>Since the 8051 can't write to Program space, this means you'll have to
>have some RAM appear in BOTH the Program and Data spaces.  This can be
>done most easily by ANDing the signals PSEN\ and RD\, and using this as
>the read signal to your RAM chip.  (This modification to a Blue Ridge
>Micros 8051 board was published in The Computer Journal #71.)

>Note that if you only had one ROM and one RAM, you may now need some
>address decoding logic.

[...]
Actually, you don't have to AND PSEN\ and RD\ if you only read from
memory using MOVC (not MOVX).  RD\ isn't even used.  All of my 8051
designs use this trick.  You can usually use a single inverter for
address decoding, with A15 driving the ROM CS\ and A15\ driving the RAM
CS\.  The maximum size of both devices is then 32 kbytes each.  The 8K
static RAMs (6264s, etc.) have an extra chip select that is active high,
which would let you omit the inverter.

So, you could do away with glue logic if you put the ROM at 0000..7FFF
and the RAM at 8000..9FFF and implemented fetch instructions using MOVC.

-- Brad



Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth


: [...]
: >Since the 8051 can't write to Program space, this means you'll have to
: >have some RAM appear in BOTH the Program and Data spaces.  This can be
: >done most easily by ANDing the signals PSEN\ and RD\, and using this as
: >the read signal to your RAM chip.  (This modification to a Blue Ridge
: >Micros 8051 board was published in The Computer Journal #71.)
: >
: >Note that if you only had one ROM and one RAM, you may now need some
: >address decoding logic.
: [...]
: Actually, you don't have to AND PSEN\ and RD\ if you only read from
: memory using MOVC (not MOVX).  RD\ isn't even used.  All of my 8051
: designs use this trick.  You can usually use a single inverter for
: address decoding, with A15 driving the ROM CS\ and A15\ driving the RAM
: CS\.  The maximum size of both devices is then 32 kbytes each.  The 8K
: static RAMs (6264s, etc.) have an extra chip select that is active high,
: which would let you omit the inverter.

: So, you could do away with glue logic if you put the ROM at 0000..7FFF
: and the RAM at 8000..9FFF and implemented fetch instructions using MOVC.

But that means that you can't interactively test CODE definitions!
Given that the 8051's internal IO all has to be driven by using
directly addressed MOV instructions that isn't going to be much fun.

Andrew.



Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

: > But that means that you can't interactively test CODE definitions!
: > Given that the 8051's internal IO all has to be driven by using
: > directly addressed MOV instructions that isn't going to be much fun.

: If I understood Brad Eckert correctly, he's proposing to use PSEN\ and
: WR\ as the memory read and write strobes, respectively.  In this case you
: could test CODE definitions.  But it means that _every_ data read has to
: use the abominable MOVC instruction.  Possible, but painful.

Oh, I see.  Gag.

: I believe the original query was how should 8051 hardware be designed to
: work with _existing_ Forths.  To the best of my knowledge, they all use
: MOVX for external RAM, so you'd still want to AND PSEN\ and RD\ in a new
: hardware design...for some of your memory space, anyway.

I've always used an eprom emulator attached to the parallel port of a
PC.  Using chipFORTH, which has the dictionary on the host and the
actual code on the target, it's possible to download code into an
eprom emulator as it's compiled.  8051 chipFORTH was designed to run
its code entirely out of an eprom, so all fetches of code (both
machine code and threaded code) use PSEN\.

To interactively develp code destined for a masked processor, use an
eprom emulator with a "piggyback eprom" version of the 8051.  That way
it's possible to use all of the I/O ports.

Andrew.



Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Help to start 8031 forth

Quote:

> But that means that you can't interactively test CODE definitions!
> Given that the 8051's internal IO all has to be driven by using
> directly addressed MOV instructions that isn't going to be much fun.

If I understood Brad Eckert correctly, he's proposing to use PSEN\ and
WR\ as the memory read and write strobes, respectively.  In this case you
could test CODE definitions.  But it means that _every_ data read has to
use the abominable MOVC instruction.  Possible, but painful.

I believe the original query was how should 8051 hardware be designed to
work with _existing_ Forths.  To the best of my knowledge, they all use
MOVX for external RAM, so you'd still want to AND PSEN\ and RD\ in a new
hardware design...for some of your memory space, anyway.
--

This brain for rent! See http://www.forth.org/fig/homes/brodriguez.html
Contributing Editor, The Computer Journal... http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
Director, Forth Interest Group........... http://www.forth.org/fig.html



Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 12 post ] 

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