SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put) 
Author Message
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

There are two ways to improve the acceptance of an Eiffel program:
1) Add a proper GUI
2) Remove the requirement for human interaction ;-)

After failing with 1) with MS-Windows and ISS (Halstenbach), I tried
2) with SmallEiffel in UNIX.

However using EiffelBase combined with SmallEiffel produced several issues,
this one being non-trivial:

base/structures/access/collection.e#32 uses ``put(v : G)'' while
lib_std/array.e#165 uses ``put(element: like item; index :
INTEGER)''. To make things worse, ARRAY inherits COLLECTION via
ARRAYED_COLLECTION. If I use rename, I'll have to modify one of the
sources.

Has anybody done this before? (i.e. EiffelBASE for SmallEiffel)
I wonder why not.

Regards,
Ulrich



Sun, 25 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT  
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

Quote:

> There are two ways to improve the acceptance of an Eiffel program:
> 1) Add a proper GUI
> 2) Remove the requirement for human interaction ;-)

> After failing with 1) with MS-Windows and ISS (Halstenbach), I tried

this sounds a bit strange for me. Have you contacted Halstenbach on
why it did not work?

Quote:
> 2) with SmallEiffel in UNIX.

> However using EiffelBase combined with SmallEiffel produced several issues,
> this one being non-trivial:

> base/structures/access/collection.e#32 uses ``put(v : G)'' while
> lib_std/array.e#165 uses ``put(element: like item; index :
> INTEGER)''. To make things worse, ARRAY inherits COLLECTION via
> ARRAYED_COLLECTION. If I use rename, I'll have to modify one of the
> sources.

> Has anybody done this before? (i.e. EiffelBASE for SmallEiffel)
> I wonder why not.

You gave yourself an answer. Because it's not so easy. Because the
compilers derive in some points even from the minimal ELKS
Standard. And another very good reason. There exists GOBO. Using it
does solve many of your porting problems. Please have a look
www.gobosoft.com

Regards
Friedrich

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Sun, 25 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT  
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

Quote:

> However using EiffelBase combined with SmallEiffel produced several issues,
> this one being non-trivial:

> base/structures/access/collection.e#32 uses ``put(v : G)'' while
> lib_std/array.e#165 uses ``put(element: like item; index :
> INTEGER)''. To make things worse, ARRAY inherits COLLECTION via
> ARRAYED_COLLECTION. If I use rename, I'll have to modify one of the
> sources.

SmallEiffel has a bug (with like declarations) that prevents a direct
port
of EiffelBase. When it is corrected, I will write a port.

Quote:

> You gave yourself an answer. Because it's not so easy. Because the
> compilers derive in some points even from the minimal ELKS
> Standard. And another very good reason. There exists GOBO. Using it
> does solve many of your porting problems. Please have a look
> www.gobosoft.

GOBO may be less efficient than EiffelBase in some domains.
So it is important to write a port to evaluate this.


Sun, 25 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT  
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

Quote:

> GOBO may be less efficient than EiffelBase in some domains.
> So it is important to write a port to evaluate this.

... and GOBO doesn't contain all that EiffelBase does.


Mon, 26 May 2003 16:00:13 GMT  
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

Quote:


> > There are two ways to improve the acceptance of an Eiffel program:
> > 1) Add a proper GUI
> > 2) Remove the requirement for human interaction ;-)

> > After failing with 1) with MS-Windows and ISS (Halstenbach), I tried
> this sounds a bit strange for me. Have you contacted Halstenbach on
> why it did not work?

Either I was out of

a) patience
b) documentation
c) disk space

I never suceeded. The resource manager stuff is a bit complicated. But
that's not the topic here...

Quote:

> > 2) with SmallEiffel in UNIX.

> > However using EiffelBase combined with SmallEiffel produced several issues,
> > this one being non-trivial:

> > base/structures/access/collection.e#32 uses ``put(v : G)'' while
> > lib_std/array.e#165 uses ``put(element: like item; index :
> > INTEGER)''. To make things worse, ARRAY inherits COLLECTION via
> > ARRAYED_COLLECTION. If I use rename, I'll have to modify one of the
> > sources.

> > Has anybody done this before? (i.e. EiffelBASE for SmallEiffel)
> > I wonder why not.
> You gave yourself an answer. Because it's not so easy. Because the
> compilers derive in some points even from the minimal ELKS
> Standard. And another very good reason. There exists GOBO. Using it
> does solve many of your porting problems. Please have a look
> www.gobosoft.com

I know GOBO, but I wonder how GOBO will be related to EiffelBase in a
few years. I thought EiffelBase is the right way to go.

Regards,
Ulrich



Mon, 26 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT  
 SmallEiffel and EiffelBase (COLLECTION.put vs. ARRAY.put)

Quote:



> > > There are two ways to improve the acceptance of an Eiffel program:
> > > 1) Add a proper GUI
> > > 2) Remove the requirement for human interaction ;-)

> > > After failing with 1) with MS-Windows and ISS (Halstenbach), I tried
> > this sounds a bit strange for me. Have you contacted Halstenbach on
> > why it did not work?

> Either I was out of

> a) patience
> b) documentation
> c) disk space

> I never suceeded. The resource manager stuff is a bit complicated. But
> that's not the topic here...

Now it may be  bit complicated but it's powerful and all things which
are powerful need some learning and patience to cope with it. Just FYI
I installed Halstenbachs Eiffel  here without much problems (besides
my dump forgetting on running a batch file that adapted my Paths to
use the C-compiler ;())

Quote:

> I know GOBO, but I wonder how GOBO will be related to EiffelBase in a
> few years. I thought EiffelBase is the right way to go.

Eric ist quite intelligent and lazy enough to use whatever works. If
EiffelBase ever will run under all Eiffels than he surely will use it
if he founds it good enough. I do not know what restrictions there are
on EiffelBase, probably it is still owned by ISE, so if you spend some
time on it you may do it for ISE.

Which is ok if you like it

Friedrich

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Tue, 27 May 2003 00:22:37 GMT  
 
 [ 6 post ] 

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