Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel) 
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 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)

If anyone wants to construct both a really interesting project in
Eiffel, and a project that can capture some major programmer attention,
I suggest creating a client interface with HP's eSpeak.

eSpeak is a distributed application architecture that, unlike Sun's
Jini, is designed to be language neutral. eSpeak is currently written
in Java; but is designed to be able to be interfaced to via a range of
languages. eSpeak was recently released under the GPL. You can sign up
to become an HP open source programmer / beta programmer here:
http://www.*-*-*.com/

I would like to work on this project myself; but I'm too busy with my
own systemic functional linguistics research system project. If anyone
actually begins working on an application using eSpeak and Eiffel, I
will be interested in hearing about your progress.

Loryn Jenkins

Sent via Deja.com http://www.*-*-*.com/
Before you buy.



Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)
I am interested in creating an educational product
that I plan to develop using Smalltalk.
For the most part performance is not an issue since there is
little number crunching involved but a lot of user interface
stuff and potentially some computer graphics and animation.

For some of the graphics and animation stuff
I may need to interface to a  C graphics library.

I am curious about the possibility of interfacing to Eiffel
instead for the computationally complex stuff.

I know  C but not  C++ or Java.  I don't want to learn them
either though I want to learn Eiffel.

1)  How difficult is it to call Eiffel routines from Smalltalk?

2)  Are there good graphics packages, animation packages, etc
 written in Eiffel that I could use?

Ralph



Mon, 29 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:30:48 -0500, Ralph Boland

Quote:

>I am interested in creating an educational product
>that I plan to develop using Smalltalk.
>For the most part performance is not an issue since there is
>little number crunching involved but a lot of user interface
>stuff and potentially some computer graphics and animation.

>For some of the graphics and animation stuff
>I may need to interface to a  C graphics library.

>I am curious about the possibility of interfacing to Eiffel
>instead for the computationally complex stuff.

>I know  C but not  C++ or Java.  I don't want to learn them
>either though I want to learn Eiffel.

>1)  How difficult is it to call Eiffel routines from Smalltalk?

>2)  Are there good graphics packages, animation packages, etc
> written in Eiffel that I could use?

I'm new to Eiffel myself, but I'll try to answer some of the
questions.
Eiffel is a high-level language; it would seem to me you'd either want
to use
          Eiffel  +  C
or
          Smalltalk + C
but not
          Eiffel + Smalltalk

The SmallEiffel compiler is probably the most advanced optimizing
compiler for any object oriented language today, converting over 80%
of polymorphic (virtual table) calls into simpler, monomorphic ones;
and implementing the rest as if statements or binary searches. That
having been said, Eiffel as a language lacks some basic things for low
level data manipulation: data types: particularly small integers, like
the INT8, UINT8, INT16, and UINT16 of C/C++, as well as shift/rotate
instructions like << and >>. But Eiffel and C make a powerful combo:
Eiffel natively supports the import of C and C++ code, and through
CECIL, Eiffel can be called from C; so, no problem there. As far as
Eiffel-Smalltalk glue is concerned I don't think there's any, but I
could be wrong.

feature define_dd is
require no_spam:
if spam  then  u := nogood end --Void

A deep programmer's
    Millenium resolution:

"I shall NOT attempt to write a single
   line of code, until I'm almost
      done with this project."

                   dd, Nov, 1999



Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)

Quote:

> I'm new to Eiffel myself, but I'll try to answer some of the
> questions.
> Eiffel is a high-level language; it would seem to me you'd either want
> to use
>           Eiffel  +  C
> or
>           Smalltalk + C
> but not
>           Eiffel + Smalltalk

Why not? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Why does that not
make sense? Guess you develop a prototyp with SmallTalks and after
you're happy with it you would to make it into a stand-alone program. I
do not know if SmallTalk provides facilites for that,  but never mind.
One can think of combining the very advanced IDEs for SmallTalk and have
a migration path to type-checked Eiffel.

And of course SmallTalk could gain from DBC and possibly type
information and Eiffel of course from the flexibility of SmallTalk. Of
course there will remain one point the syntaxes are not simular so one
or the other side may adapt.

But having s.th. like an Eiffel-Interpreter would IMO be a fine piece of
software.

Regards
Friedrich



Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)

Quote:

> The SmallEiffel compiler is probably the most advanced optimizing
> compiler for any object oriented language today, converting over 80%
> of polymorphic (virtual table) calls into simpler, monomorphic ones;
> and implementing the rest as if statements or binary searches.

Ooohhh... I see you have read a few papers from loria.fr recently :)

BTW the picture isn't that clear. C++ compilers do some really heavy
optimizations that aren't easy to match. Even within the Eiffel
community, I have heard claims that SmallEiffel isn't the fastest
compiler anymore; I don't have hard facts to back that up so I can't go
into details, but I seriously suggest that anybody who wants to claim
anybody about relative speeds should run a few benchmarks first.

Regards,
Joachim
--
This is a private communication, not a statement from my employer.



Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)

Quote:

> I know  C but not  C++ or Java.  I don't want to learn them
> either though I want to learn Eiffel.

> 1)  How difficult is it to call Eiffel routines from Smalltalk?

You have to go through a C interface; I'm not sure how your Smalltalk
environment is at this (usually quite good I think).

Eiffel offers a standard interface, "Cecil", for calling into Eiffel.
The SmallEiffel site (somewhere at loria.fr) has a short introduction
into the various C-Eiffel interfacing options. You may also want to look
at the papers on http://www.eiffel.com.

Quote:
> 2)  Are there good graphics packages, animation packages, etc
>  written in Eiffel that I could use?

There are - but I suspect that Smalltalk will have difficulties
integrating them into its own way of GUI handling. I suppose you'll want
just a fast engine that prepares the bitmaps so that Smalltalk can
display them with little overhead.
I'm not aware of such a library - current Eiffel implementations are
more optimized for organizing sizable software packages into a coherent
way than for massive data crunching. (And personally, I'm very much with
any vendor that spends more effort to get their compiler correct than
fast.)

Regards,
Joachim
--
This is a private communication, not a statement from my employer.



Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:33:11 +0100, Friedrich Dominicus

Quote:

>Why not? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Why does that not
>make sense? Guess you develop a prototyp with SmallTalks and after
>you're happy with it you would to make it into a stand-alone program. I
>do not know if SmallTalk provides facilites for that,  but never mind.
>One can think of combining the very advanced IDEs for SmallTalk and have
>a migration path to type-checked Eiffel.
>And of course SmallTalk could gain from DBC and possibly type
>information and Eiffel of course from the flexibility of SmallTalk. Of
>course there will remain one point the syntaxes are not simular so one
>or the other side may adapt.

>But having s.th. like an Eiffel-Interpreter would IMO be a fine piece of
>software.

Sorry, I just saw the posting there two days in a row and nobody was
posting any followups, so I thought I'd express my humble opinion.

It also seemed to me the question was not regarding possible
advantages of combining the strengths of SmallTalk and Eiffel, but
about taking care of high/low end parts to a rather simple problem.

Regards.

feature define_dd is
require no_spam:
if spam  then  u := nogood end --Void

A deep programmer's
    Millenium resolution:

"I shall NOT attempt to write a single
   line of code, until I'm almost
      done with this project."

                   dd, Nov, 1999



Tue, 30 Apr 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Interesting Project (And an Excellent Project for Promoting Eiffel)

Quote:
> It also seemed to me the question was not regarding possible
> advantages of combining the strengths of SmallTalk and Eiffel, but
> about taking care of high/low end parts to a rather simple problem.

The question was
1) how difficult is it to call Eiffel routines from Smalltalk

Maybe this should have been C but, the answer was that one may talk
about Eiffel+C, Smalltalk + C but not Eiffel+Smalltalk.

So the above suggests that Eiffel should be called from Smalltalk and I
think that may be a fine thing

Regards
Friedrich



Wed, 01 May 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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