Dylan implementation tips 
Author Message
 Dylan implementation tips

Are there any books pertinent to implementing a Dylan compiler? I'm
working on something which is similar to Dylan in many respects, which
will need to be implemented someday. Dylan is perhaps the closest
language to my ideas, so books on implementing Dylan systems would be
nice!

Thanx,

ABW
--
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Nuclear Arsenals, Laser Satellites, Battlefield Control Networks,
Radar Installations, Fighter Squadrons, and other WfEWAD compliant
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full support for the now-famous Big Red Buttom(tm)."

(Windows for Early Warning and Defence User's manual P26)


<A HREF=" http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;>Hello :-)</A>



Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

    Alaric> Are there any books pertinent to implementing a Dylan
    Alaric> compiler? I'm working on something which is similar to

I think you are out of luck here. There are only two books about Dylan
at all, and there is not even one decent compiler implementation.

And if Apple management had some self respect they would release the
Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

Andreas

--
Chaos Computer Club says: Don't use ActiveX!



Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

Hi,
        Not specifically on Dylan, but this may help

        "Lisp in Small Pieces" by Christian Queinnec
        ISBN 0 521 56247 3

        I'm still working through it. It is hard, but very, very good.
        Worth buying. Check out the page

        file://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/icsla/WWW/LiSP.html

        There are also some books on writing Lisp interpreters that
may help, like the one by Friedman and others. I don't remember the
name of that one now.

-- Brian

Quote:

> Are there any books pertinent to implementing a Dylan compiler? I'm
> working on something which is similar to Dylan in many respects, which
> will need to be implemented someday. Dylan is perhaps the closest
> language to my ideas, so books on implementing Dylan systems would be
> nice!

> Thanx,

> ABW
> --
> "Plug and Play support: WfEWAD will autodetect any installed
> Nuclear Arsenals, Laser Satellites, Battlefield Control Networks,
> Radar Installations, Fighter Squadrons, and other WfEWAD compliant
> devices, including the new Macrosoft Unnatural Keyboard, with
> full support for the now-famous Big Red Buttom(tm)."

> (Windows for Early Warning and Defence User's manual P26)


> <A HREF="http://www.abwillms.demon.co.uk/">Hello :-)</A>



Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

Quote:

>    Alaric> Are there any books pertinent to implementing a Dylan
>    Alaric> compiler? I'm working on something which is similar to
>I think you are out of luck here. There are only two books about Dylan
>at all, and there is not even one decent compiler implementation.

Alas :-(

Quote:
>And if Apple management had some self respect they would release the
>Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

Well, hey, as far as I can tell, Apple have a history of giving up on
good things before they get successful. Still, we can look forward to
DylanWorks...

Quote:
>Andreas

ABW

Quote:
>Chaos Computer Club says: Don't use ActiveX!

Alaric says: I agree

ABW
--
"Plug and Play support: WfEWAD will autodetect any installed
Nuclear Arsenals, Laser Satellites, Battlefield Control Networks,
Radar Installations, Fighter Squadrons, and other WfEWAD compliant
devices, including the new Macrosoft Unnatural Keyboard, with
full support for the now-famous Big Red Buttom(tm)."

(Windows for Early Warning and Defence User's manual P26)


<A HREF="http://www.abwillms.demon.co.uk/">Hello :-)</A>



Thu, 16 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips


    Date: 29 Mar 1997 17:34:14 +0200


        Alaric> Are there any books pertinent to implementing a Dylan
        Alaric> compiler? I'm working on something which is similar to

    I think you are out of luck here. There are only two books about Dylan
    at all, and there is not even one decent compiler implementation.

Well, there is, but it's not _quite_ available yet. ;-)

    And if Apple management had some self respect they would release the
    Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

    Andreas

    --
    Chaos Computer Club says: Don't use ActiveX!



Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

On Sat, Mar 29, 1997 08:34,

 >And if Apple management had some self respect they would
 >release the Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

-a gratuitous me too.
Actually, this is the same issue facing the OpenDoc C100 developers as
Apple Legal is considering the same model for that technology. The C100
recently had me write a brief history of the Apple Dylan trials and
tribulations for them to use in their negotiations with Apple to sell the
ODF to the C100. Although probably the least qualified to do so, I was
honored to help them and happy to know that Apple management would have the
Dylan issue brought up again.

The "if we can't make it work on this platform, no one will have the
chance," attitude has to end in Cupertino. I'm glad that the Unix and
Windows implementations of Dylan began before Apple could kill the project
completely, but I'd sure like to have a viable Dylan solution on my
platform of choice.


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Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

Has anyone even determined whether the name "Dylan" can be used?
It's a trademark of Apple precisely to stop people from using it
without approval.  (The idea was supposedly to ensure that
implementations conformed to the language definition.)

-- jd



Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips


Quote:
>On Sat, Mar 29, 1997 08:34,

> >And if Apple management had some self respect they would
> >release the Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

>-a gratuitous me too.


idea of releasing the source code.  I don't know whether Russ is
still at Apple.  I imagine the biggest hurdle to getting the source
code released is simply finding someone at Apple with the time to
put into the issue.  The issue is, understandably, low priority.

If there were an organized (even loosely organized) group of people
who were going to actually -do- something with the source code, it
might increase the chances of Apple bothering to release it.

Quote:
>Actually, this is the same issue facing the OpenDoc C100 developers as
>Apple Legal is considering the same model for that technology. The C100
>recently had me write a brief history of the Apple Dylan trials and
>tribulations for them to use in their negotiations with Apple to sell the
>ODF to the C100.

I'm missing some background on this.  Are the C100 a group of OpenDoc
developers who want to take over the Apple implementation of OpenDoc,
now that Apple has dropped plans to support it in Rhapsody?  And what
part of OpenDoc is ODF?

__________________________________________________________________

Andrew Shalit

_________________________________________________________________



Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips


Quote:

>idea of releasing the source code.  I don't know whether Russ is
>still at Apple.

Russ Daniels did indeed survive the orgquake.  Send him a note and see
what happens.


Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips


Quote:


>>idea of releasing the source code.  I don't know whether Russ is
>>still at Apple.

>Russ Daniels did indeed survive the orgquake.  Send him a note and see
>what happens.

The note should be sent by someone who is interested in working on
the project.  For good or ill, that's not me.

  -Andrew

__________________________________________________________________


__________________________________________________________________



Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

Hi!


ALS> idea of releasing the source code.

Releasing Sources would be really great - maybe under the same license as
they did with SK8. If only to get a piece of source to learn from.

bye, Georg



Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips



Quote:

> >And if Apple management had some self respect they would release the
> >Apple Dylan source code instead of just dumping it.

> Well, hey, as far as I can tell, Apple have a history of giving up on
> good things before they get successful. Still, we can look forward to
> DylanWorks...

Mm...  One of the employees at Apple Cambridge printed up and sold (here,
actually, and on several mailing lists) a bunch of shirts with the apple
logo and "Apple - The Power to Cancel Your Very Best" on the front, and
the dylan DR1 environment on the back, with a dialog up saying: "Are you
sure you want to cancel the entire Cambridge Lab?" on the back...  Don't
know if these are still available anywhere, but I got mine. :)

--
                                Jim Wise



Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

Quote:

>Releasing Sources would be really great - maybe under the same license as
>they did with SK8. If only to get a piece of source to learn from.

While I was at Apple Cambridge I wanted to talk Russ into releasing
sources to a small group of dedicated individuals to take over the Apple
Dylan source base. I never got around to it.

Merely releasing the source wouldn't be that useful, IMHO. There is a
*lot* of code there, from various time periods, and the only people at
this point who could actually set up the build server so one could build
it are Bill St. Clair and/or Steve Hain at Digitool --- and I doubt they
have the time (or the inclination) to do it: I was never able to set up
the build system from the source snap I had.

If there are people who are interested in moving Apple Dylan forward,
I'll volunteer to organize the effort. Contact me directly at my work

    -tre



Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips

In-Reply-To: Tom Emerson's message of Sat, 5 Apr 97 12:56:51 -0500

Quote:
> While I was at Apple Cambridge I wanted to talk Russ into releasing
> sources to a small group of dedicated individuals to take over the Apple
> Dylan source base. I never got around to it.

> Merely releasing the source wouldn't be that useful, IMHO. [...]

Why not release it anyway?  What harm would it do?


Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00 GMT  
 Dylan implementation tips



Quote:

>Has anyone even determined whether the name "Dylan" can be used?
>It's a trademark of Apple precisely to stop people from using it
>without approval.  (The idea was supposedly to ensure that
>implementations conformed to the language definition.)

About a month  ( or two ??) ago I fired off a missive on this issue

one. That address in light of the reorg and project killings is probably
totally swamped. ]  Somehow I get the feeling that if I contacted Apple
"Legal" that I might get a response.  Or confusion.

Techninally I suppose they have a case. But why would a company that doesn't
have enough money to develop the language themselves ( or do a plethora of
other things ) have enought money to spend time suing someone for use
of the name as a language label?   However, I don't think trademark law
allows them to just "abandon" the trademark either.

[ I think the DoD announced in some way that they were given up the
  trademark on Ada after it entered the ANSI/ISO process. Not that
  Dylan is quite ready for the road yet.  ]

Do harlequin and/or CMU have a language compliance test suite of code?

--

Lyman S. Taylor          "Any sufficiently advanced technology is

                                   -- paraphrased Arthur C. Clarke
                                        seen somewhere on the USENET



Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:00:00 GMT  
 
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