Lisp - First Impressions 
Author Message
 Lisp - First Impressions


Quote:
>popular. A greater leap still to the decision not to use it because
>it's not more popular.

Dylan is even less popular than Lisp.  I'm presently using Smalltalk and am
considering moving to Lisp or Dylan.  There are a lot of advantages of each
of them, but I don't really understand most of those advantages.  Besides
those two languages, the other option I'm considering is to just keep using
Smalltalk.  I assume Lisp and Dylan have most of Smalltalk's features, but
some of them might not be as elegant.  Such as the closure syntax, which lets
you combine multiple and/or nested closures on one line of code without
obfuscating it.

Besides the question of which language is better, an even bigger question
might be which development environment is better.  Without taking the
language into account, is Functional Developer as good as LispWorks?  Are
there any other development environments I should consider, assuming Allegro
is out of my price range?

-- Eric S.



Wed, 04 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions



Quote:

>>popular. A greater leap still to the decision not to use it because
>>it's not more popular.

>Dylan is even less popular than Lisp.  I'm presently using Smalltalk and am
>considering moving to Lisp or Dylan.  There are a lot of advantages of each
>of them, but I don't really understand most of those advantages.  Besides
>those two languages, the other option I'm considering is to just keep using
>Smalltalk.  I assume Lisp and Dylan have most of Smalltalk's features, but
>some of them might not be as elegant.  Such as the closure syntax, which
lets
>you combine multiple and/or nested closures on one line of code without
>obfuscating it.

Besides popularity, there other other trade-offs between Lisp and
Dylan.  If you want to be able to deliver DLL's, for example, Dylan's
the right choice.

Quote:
>Besides the question of which language is better, an even bigger question
>might be which development environment is better.  Without taking the
>language into account, is Functional Developer as good as LispWorks?  Are
>there any other development environments I should consider, assuming
Allegro
>is out of my price range?

Disclaimer 1: I worked at Harlequin on Dylan.

Disclaimer 2: Yeah, yeah, so Smalltalk (along with Interlisp) is one
of the great progenitor languages and environments.  I still think
Smalltalk environments are very dated and actually pretty clunky.

So...

I think the LispWorks environment basically sucks, although the
interactivity support in it is as good as in any other Lisp environment.
I think the Functional Dylan environment (nee Harlequin Dylan) is
probably one of the really good environments you can find for
any programming language.  The code produced by both LispWorks
and by Functional Dylan is really pretty damned good.



Wed, 04 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions

Quote:

>I think the LispWorks environment basically sucks, although the
>interactivity support in it is as good as in any other Lisp environment.
>I think the Functional Dylan environment (nee Harlequin Dylan) is
>probably one of the really good environments you can find for
>any programming language.  The code produced by both LispWorks
>and by Functional Dylan is really pretty damned good.

An example would be very helpful, of one of the ways LispWorks sucks, and/or
one of the ways Functional beats it.

Does Functional Objects have a lot of good programmers working full time on
Functional Developer?  Or is it more a matter of having inherited it from
Harlequin and having a few programmers continue to maintain it?

To get started with it, is the free version enough, or is it better to spend
the money to get the various extras?

-- Eric S.



Thu, 05 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions

Quote:

> Besides popularity, there other other trade-offs between Lisp and
> Dylan.  If you want to be able to deliver DLL's, for example, Dylan's
> the right choice.

I've never actually done it, but my Lispworks manual tells me that I can
deliver DLL's if I want to. I think this was one of the new features in
version 4.1.

Arthur Lemmens



Thu, 05 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions

Quote:


> >I think the LispWorks environment basically sucks, although the
> >interactivity support in it is as good as in any other Lisp environment.
> >I think the Functional Dylan environment (nee Harlequin Dylan) is
> >probably one of the really good environments you can find for
> >any programming language.  The code produced by both LispWorks
> >and by Functional Dylan is really pretty damned good.

> An example would be very helpful, of one of the ways LispWorks sucks, and/or
> one of the ways Functional beats it.

I'm not very familiar with LispWorks, but one of the things that
FunDev does a lot better than MCL is stepping through source
code a line at a time.  The support for this in Harlequin Dylan 1.x
had some problems but it's quite good in FunDev 2.0.

Quote:
> Does Functional Objects have a lot of good programmers working full time on
> Functional Developer?  Or is it more a matter of having inherited it from
> Harlequin and having a few programmers continue to maintain it?

They are doing more than just maintaining it.  They've already
done a lot of work on porting to other platforms.  Lots of bugs
have been fixed too, notably in DUIM.

Quote:
> To get started with it, is the free version enough, or is it better to spend
> the money to get the various extras?

You can download the full version for a 30 day trial period if
you just want to evaluate it.


Fri, 06 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions

where can i get FunDev 2.0?

dave



Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Lisp - First Impressions

Quote:

> where can i get FunDev 2.0?

http://www.functionalobjects.com

Chris.
--
http://www.double.co.nz



Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 7 post ] 

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