Status of Dylan? 
Author Message
 Status of Dylan?

What is the current status of Dylan?

Is there actually going to be a supported version of Dylan as a language?

Is Apple doing anything with Dylan?

Is there a Dylan Compiler?



Fri, 07 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?
[Marty Connor]

|   I believe Apple has cancelled the project, though the press release was
|   not totally clear on the point, I would guess Apple's new "focus" would
|   preclude an Apple Dylan.

could you quote relevant parts from the press release, please?  this is a
little more important than a mere "I believe".

#<Erik 3010201168>
--
NETSCAPISM /net-'sca-,pi-z*m/ n (1995): habitual diversion of the mind to
    purely imaginative activity or entertainment as an escape from the
    realization that the Internet was built by and for someone else.



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?


Quote:
>What is the current status of Dylan?

I believe Apple has cancelled the project, though the press release was not
totally clear on the point, I would guess Apple's new "focus" would preclude
an Apple Dylan.

Quote:
>Is there actually going to be a supported version of Dylan as a language?

I would bet not (from Apple).

Quote:
>Is Apple doing anything with Dylan?

"doing anything" is a little vague, but my sense is that it would be hard to
continue development without the people who have done it already, and who
can say what their status is with the cancellation of the project.  

Quote:
>Is there a Dylan Compiler?

Good question.

"Life is like a box of chocolates."

---
Martin D. Connor, Computer Consultant, Owner, Marty's Computer Workshop
US Mail: P.O. Box 550, Kendall Square; Cambridge, MA 02142-0004



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:
>could you quote relevant parts from the press release, please?  this is a
>little more important than a mere "I believe".

Sometimes things of importance seem to be irrelevant at first blush.

http://www.info.apple.com/mirror/Apple.Support.Area/Apple.Press.Relea...
pr95-Apple.Organization.Rel.txt

   "These organizational announcements signal the beginning of the
   second phase of our business reengineering," said Spindler.
   "During the first phase, which started almost two years ago, we
   moved our business model to be more industry competitive, improved
   the company's fiscal health and transitioned the Macintosh
   platform to the next generation of microprocessor technology with
   PowerPC.

   Now, we are ready to put increased marketing and R & D
   focus on those sectors where we see significant future growth
   potential, and where Apple has considerable competitive advantage.

In the parlance of American Capitalism that means we're gonna cancel some
projects and axe some people's jobs for the good of the (major)
"stockholders", of whom the biggest are probably on the board of directors.
But I digress...

   "We have a solid foundation in these areas and we look to grow our
   overall market share by expanding our presence in these sectors.
   The steps we are taking today, in addition to our ongoing plans to
   license our software, position Apple even better for the future."

Well, it can't get much clearer than that.  Certainly Dylan's not going to
make the cut on these criteria.

I could be mistaken, but after 20 years of computer industry experience, "a
subtle pattern begins to emerge..."

Marty

---
Martin D. Connor, Computer Consultant, Owner, Marty's Computer Workshop
US Mail: P.O. Box 550, Kendall Square; Cambridge, MA 02142-0004



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?
Excerpts from netnews.comp.lang.dylan: 23-May-95 Re: Status of Dylan? by

Quote:
> >Is there a Dylan Compiler?

> Good question.

   On the lighter side of this thread, there are Mindy and MacMindy in the
way of compilers.  Mindy 1.3 can be ftp'ed from legend.gwydion.cs.cmu.edu,
and I believe MacMindy can as well.  There are other sites, but that's the
one I know offhand.
   I've also been told of the existence of a quick slap-together compiler
called 'Thomas', which is Dylan over Scheme, but never seen it.  More are
on the way from a couple of sources (I believe).

                                                Noah Gibbs

(There's a brave new world out there...  Ev'rybody hide)



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:


> >could you quote relevant parts from the press release, please?  this is a
> >little more important than a mere "I believe".

> Sometimes things of importance seem to be irrelevant at first blush.

> http://www.*-*-*.com/
> pr95-Apple.Organization.Rel.txt

[some pulled quotes & commentary snipped]

I fail to understand how you managed to infer anything about Apple Dylan
from this document.

IMHO, you really shouldn't post inflamatory, baseless rumours like this
(that Dylan is no more)... it just gets people upset, and for what?
There's just no evidence for what you're saying, at least not in the
source you cite.

Are you just being paranoid? If so, please do it on your own time. On the
other hand, if you actually do KNOW anything, then tell us what you know,
and I'll apologize.

jason

/*  

     assoc. information processing consultant
     UW Hospital Dept. of Anesthesiology
     opinions are my own. No, I cannot prescribe {*filter*}.
*/



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:

>What is the current status of Dylan?

Dylan is alive and well. While I can't speak for Apple Computer, I can say that
from what the announced at WWDC that they will be providing a technology release
toward the end of the year.

Quote:
>Is there actually going to be a supported version of Dylan as a language?

Both Apple Computer and Harlequin Inc. are developing commercial Dylan compilers.
I saw a version of of Harlequin's Dylan at the WWDC, running on Windows NT.

Quote:
>Is Apple doing anything with Dylan?

Presumably. (I don't know how they are using it internally.)

Quote:
>Is there a Dylan Compiler?

Carnegie Mellon's Mindy is a byte-code compiler. It runs on a
variety of UNIX workstations, as well as on the Macintosh.
Check out

http://legend.gwydion.cs.cmu.edu:8001/dylan/

for more information about other Carnegie Mellon projects related
to Dylan.

--
// author:          Patrick C. Beard
// organization:    Computing Research Group



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?


Quote:

>> could you quote relevant parts from the press release, please?
>> this is a little more important than a mere "I believe".

Marty> Sometimes things of importance seem to be irrelevant at first
Marty> blush.

Marty> http://www.info.apple.com/mirror/Apple.Support.Area/Apple.Press.Relea...
Marty> pr95-Apple.Organization.Rel.txt

Marty>    "These organizational announcements signal the beginning of
Marty> the second phase of our business reengineering," said Spindler.
Marty> "During the first phase, which started almost two years ago, we
Marty> moved our business model to be more industry competitive,
Marty> improved the company's fiscal health and transitioned the
Marty> Macintosh platform to the next generation of microprocessor
Marty> technology with PowerPC.

Marty>    Now, we are ready to put increased marketing and R & D focus
Marty> on those sectors where we see significant future growth
Marty> potential, and where Apple has considerable competitive
Marty> advantage.

Marty> In the parlance of American Capitalism that means we're gonna
Marty> cancel some projects and axe some people's jobs for the good of
Marty> the (major) "stockholders", of whom the biggest are probably on
Marty> the board of directors.  But I digress...

Marty>    "We have a solid foundation in these areas and we look to
Marty> grow our overall market share by expanding our presence in
Marty> these sectors.  The steps we are taking today, in addition to
Marty> our ongoing plans to license our software, position Apple even
Marty> better for the future."

Marty> Well, it can't get much clearer than that.  Certainly Dylan's
Marty> not going to make the cut on these criteria.

Yea, it's as clear as mud.

Dylan isn't mentioned. Software technology *is* mentioned, in a
non-specific fashion, in a positive light. Nothing specific is said
*whatsoever*.

From this, you conclude that Dylan has been cancelled.

Well, based on what I know as a Dylan partner, a lot of people inside
Apple must be awfully surprised, given that they seem to believe that
Dylan is an ongoing concern, and that they're getting paid to develop
it. They even seem to believe that they'll have a preliminary release
of the LRM out within a couple of weeks.

And hell, that doesn't even consider the fact that those guys over at
Harlequin seem to believe that they're working on a marketable Dylan
compiler. Or those guys at CMU who seem to believe that they have
grants to develop an industrial quality compiler, and industrial
partners interested in using it.

And I must be absolutely delusional to believe that I'm actually doing
research using Dylan. I should be instituionalized for believing that
it's actually possible to build an ILU binding for an incomplete dead
language.

But hey. You must be right. All of us must be deceived. It couldn't
possibly be that you've come to an idiotic conclusion based on a
ridiculous interpretation of a doubletalking corporate press release.

        <MC>
--
|| Mark Craig Chu-Carroll: <MC> || "Only love
|| CIS Grad, Univ of Delaware   ||     can make love"
|| PGP key available by finger  ||      -Peter Gabriel



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?
[Marty Connor]

|   Well, it can't get much clearer than that.

well, _I_ think it could...  but your interpretation seems well within the
possible.

|   Certainly Dylan's not going to make the cut on these criteria.

this depends on how Apple views the Cambridge office.  I'd look for more
information from that direction before I'd draw the conclusion you draw.

|   I could be mistaken, but after 20 years of computer industry
|   experience, "a subtle pattern begins to emerge..."

can't dispute that, but we still don't know for certain, and April 4 is a
long time ago.  somebody should have noticed by now...

#<Erik 3010234165>
--
NETSCAPISM /net-'sca-,pi-z*m/ n (1995): habitual diversion of the mind to
    purely imaginative activity or entertainment as an escape from the
    realization that the Internet was built by and for someone else.



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

: I believe Apple has cancelled the project, though the press release was not
: totally clear on the point, I would guess Apple's new "focus" would preclude
: an Apple Dylan.

Er, I beg your pardon?  When was this?  What press release?

: "doing anything" is a little vague, but my sense is that it would be hard to
: continue development without the people who have done it already, and who
: can say what their status is with the cancellation of the project.  

Sorry, care to fill in those of us who get all our news from the net on
these ominous-sounding devlopments?

Thanks...                                                       -- Tim
--



Sat, 08 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:
>On the
>other hand, if you actually do KNOW anything, then tell us what you know,
>and I'll apologize.

I know that I don't care much about your message.

---
Martin D. Connor, Computer Consultant, Owner, Marty's Computer Workshop
US Mail: P.O. Box 550, Kendall Square; Cambridge, MA 02142-0004



Sun, 09 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:

>And I must be absolutely delusional to believe that I'm actually doing
>research using Dylan. I should be instituionalized for believing that
>it's actually possible to build an ILU binding for an incomplete dead
>language.

Possibly, but I have no particular opinion on the point. ;-)

Quote:
>But hey. You must be right. All of us must be deceived. It couldn't
>possibly be that you've come to an idiotic conclusion based on a
>ridiculous interpretation of a doubletalking corporate press release.

Or you could be a person who never experienced much in the way of
non-academic/research life, and though he has the ability to solve rather
complex mathematically contrived problems can be taken in fairly trivial
ways when it comes to business.

It is a common weakness of technically gifted individuals.

P.S.  Rant all you wish.  My belief in my theory has strengthened
considerably since I first proposed it.  Perhaps Apple will release a more
specific press release on the matter in the near future.  Perhaps not.

---
Martin D. Connor, Computer Consultant, Owner, Marty's Computer Workshop
US Mail: P.O. Box 550, Kendall Square; Cambridge, MA 02142-0004



Sun, 09 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Quote:
>but we still don't know for certain, and April 4 is a
>long time ago.  somebody should have noticed by now...

Noticed what?

There are generally two ways people lose their jobs and projects are
cancelled in high tech these days.

There is the "empty box in the cubicle" method, which is favored by
cash-poor startups, and smaller companies who want to minimize the
possibility that the affected employees will do damage to the company, so
they instruct the employees to fill the boxes and never return.

Then, for the fortune_500, cash-rich R&D companies there is the great
severance package deal contingent on keeping one's mouth shut.  Publically
held companies do this for a number of reasons, typically so that the
stock-price doesn't fluctuate outside the control of the major stock-holders
and brokers.  There is also the possibility the employee will be needed
elsewhere in the company or at a later time.

So I doubt there would be much to notice.  I would theorize that something
will happen later this year.  But I could also theorize that Lotus will be
bought by a large networking company based on my reading of their inability
to produce software in-house.


---
Martin D. Connor, Computer Consultant, Owner, Marty's Computer Workshop
US Mail: P.O. Box 550, Kendall Square; Cambridge, MA 02142-0004



Sun, 09 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?
[response to paranoia deleted]

Quote:
>Well, based on what I know as a Dylan partner, a lot of people inside
>Apple must be awfully surprised, given that they seem to believe that
>Dylan is an ongoing concern, and that they're getting paid to develop
>it. They even seem to believe that they'll have a preliminary release
>of the LRM out within a couple of weeks.

A preliminary release of the LRM, as in on the Internet?  Do tell...

Regards,
Wolfgang Ziller



Sun, 09 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 Status of Dylan?

Wolfgang> paranoia deleted]

Quote:
>> Well, based on what I know as a Dylan partner, a lot of people
>> inside Apple must be awfully surprised, given that they seem to
>> believe that Dylan is an ongoing concern, and that they're getting
>> paid to develop it. They even seem to believe that they'll have a
>> preliminary release of the LRM out within a couple of weeks.

Wolfgang> A preliminary release of the LRM, as in on the Internet?  Do
Wolfgang> tell...

Not to the internet yet.

Apple has a group called the Dylan partners. The partners are people
who are actively involved in implementing Dylan. The first release of
the manual will be to the partners. Then I expect that there'll be
quite a lot of discussion on the partners mailing list, to try to work
the bugs out of the manual. Once we're through with it, I would guess
that it will be released publically on the net. But since I'm just a
partner, *not* an employee of Apple, I can't say for certain what
their plans are. (But I can say that the people at Apple Cambridge are
still actively working on Dylan, involved in design discussions with
the partners, and currently editing the final internal revision of the
LRM.)

        <MC>
--
|| Mark Craig Chu-Carroll: <MC> || "A libertarian is just a republican
|| CIS Grad, U of Delaware      ||  who takes {*filter*}"
|| PGP Key Available, by finger ||       - Bob Black



Sun, 09 Nov 1997 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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