Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ? 
Author Message
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?

Hi folks. I suspect we are getting close to the beta hour ( I hope )
???? I have a rather presumptuous question: I was wondering about the
announced DylanWorks Personal Edition... will it be free for download
like Harlequin's  FreeLisp ?  I think, from a marketing perspective,
providing a free introductory version would be very smart. A great way
to capture a mass user base. Comments ? Answers ? Flames ? BTW - any
sign 'o the beta ?

- Russ Van Rooy



Mon, 10 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?



Quote:

>Hi folks. I suspect we are getting close to the beta hour ( I hope )
>???? I have a rather presumptuous question: I was wondering about the
>announced DylanWorks Personal Edition... will it be free for download
>like Harlequin's  FreeLisp ?
....
> ...         I think, from a marketing perspective,
>providing a free introductory version would be very smart. A great way
>to capture a mass user base. Comments ? Answers ? Flames ?

  Until there is some widely disseminated, "insanely great" reason to use
  Dylan, or perhaps DylanWorks in particular, the main audience that Harlequin
  will be catering to is the "curious and open minded".  I wouldn't
  characterize this as a mass user base.  However, it should be,  with a
  sufficiently useful implementation, a viable user base.

  The primary objective would be to make it convenient to try out
  the language in the hopes that they will eventually buy the full product.

  There are two "targets" of "free versions"

        i. educational version
        ii. evaluation version

   The educational version is crippled in some way and is primarily
   targeted towards getting people up to speed on  the language.
   Some/all the "gee-whiz" features could be removed/disabled
   ( this might be hard to do).

   This isn't really going to capture mass market in the short term.
   This can help enable the supply when the demand for Dylan knowledgeable
   folks goes up. In and of itself doesn't significantly increase the
   demand dynamics of the market.

   The free evaluation version shouldn't be crippled in features but in
   terms of time. Either auto-quits after N minutes or only works for
   N weeks and then permanently shuts down.  The objective here is to
   give serious developers a vehicle to try out a demo project before
   dropping dollars to either do more extensive demos or commit to a
   project.

  With those two classifications in mind...

  FreeLisp is "so so"  as an educational vehicle.  In my opinion it does
  nothing ( except perhaps discourage ) evaluations for the more commercial
  products.   An interpreter only implementation, albeit freely available,
  would only encourage the "Dylan is *SLOW*" refrain from small in number,
  yet vocal mass market "troublemakers".   Who in turn manage to perpetuate
  the "myth" for a long time over a large audience.

  Since there is no "demo" version of "Lispworks for Windows", that would seem
  to indicate that one should not hold one's breath waiting on a "free"
  version of DylanWorks.

  Perhaps an educational version could be crippled to not generate DLLs
  and EXEs somehow...  with the tethered development process I'm not sure
  how to make this work all that well.

  For an evaluation objective perhaps a time-crippled version ( either
  an "after N minutes timeout" or an "after a month... die"  ) would be
  more effective. [ Maybe this could be done internal to the runtime
  library so that binaries would be interchangeable with those who did
  pay full price..   ]    This could be used for initial preliminary
  evaluation.  Thereafter the evaluator could move on to the personal
  edition and/or the more up-scale versions.

  Given the current state of the Dylan "world" I'd say that the evaluation
  objective is more important now than the educational one. The latter
  can be filled with Mindy/d2c for the moment. The sufficiently curious
  will probably put up with the rough edges on using those tools. Once
  the demand goes up and you start to draw those not so intensely
  motivated by curiosity... you may need a vehicle that has the high
  ease of use factor.

Quote:
>           ........  BTW - any
>sign 'o the beta ?

  I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you.... :-)

  I'm not under the NDA,  which means I don't have it.  However, for those
  that do... I presume that they can't talk about it.  I don't know if the
  NDA is draconian enough to disallow even mentioning "yes I have it".
  But since in all likelihood you couldn't say much more than that, there is
  not much use in even admitting that you even have it... since the
  inevitable inquiries would fill up your mailbox...   ;-)

  That said it would be nice to know if we've been "rejected" for the early
  beta phase ( and it was going on without us) or that everyone's fate
  was still be pondered by the beta selection oracle.....  or that
  the said oracle would make a decision by XYZ date.

--

Lyman S. Taylor           "Computers are too reliable to replace

                                Commander Nathan Spring, "Starcops"



Mon, 10 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?

The Personal Edition will not be free ;-)

.. but the good news is that we intend to make it 'easily affordable' by anyone who can afford to own a computer. Final pricing decisions are still pending, so I'm not going to talk numbers!

We have received a large number of Beta requests following our recent announcement, and will shortly be contacting a selected number of people with further details about the process. Those unable to participate in the first, early stage, will have another opportunity in the subsequent, wider phases of our program.

Regards
Clive Harris
Product Marketing Manager
Harlequin.

----------

Sent:   24 July 1997 17:22

Subject:        Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?

Hi folks. I suspect we are getting close to the beta hour ( I hope )
???? I have a rather presumptuous question: I was wondering about the
announced DylanWorks Personal Edition... will it be free for download
like Harlequin's  FreeLisp ?  I think, from a marketing perspective,
providing a free introductory version would be very smart. A great way
to capture a mass user base. Comments ? Answers ? Flames ? BTW - any
sign 'o the beta ?

- Russ Van Rooy



Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?



Quote:
>  Since there is no "demo" version of "Lispworks for Windows", that would seem
>   to indicate that one should not hold one's breath waiting on a "free"
>   version of DylanWorks.

Actually, there is. I used it myself, before deciding to purchase LWW.
Perhaps this is one of those well kept secrets? A little marketing
might help! C'mon, Harlequin. Tell a few people.

Apart from that, I agree with what you're saying. An evaluation
version of DylanWorks will help, but initially it'll probably only be
of interest to those who are already interested. Later, after word of
mouth and perhaps a review or two, some people not yet familiar with
dynamic languages will discover Dylan. I expect that a few of them
will be sufficiently curious for them to wish to try an evaluation
version, such as you've described.

I also agree with about the danger of creating a "Dylan is slow" myth.
The status and purpose of Mindy should be clear enough to avoid the
confusion between bytecoded and native code Dylan implementations, but
if experience with Lisp is any guide, then a few people may try to use
the performance of Mindy in "Dylan benchmarks". In case anyone reading
this is unsure what I mean, let me remind everyone that Mindy is short
for Mindy Is Not Dylan Yet. Therefore, we should take care not to let
people confuse Mindy with, say, DylanWorks.

So far, Dylan appears to be free of the myths that plague Lisp (or
other dialects of Lisp, depending on your viewpoint). While we could
debate whether or not Lisp can be hurt by such myths, Dylan is another
matter. At this early stage, Dylan could be very serious hurt by such
negative memes. How seriously that damage may be is one more debate.

I'm optimistic. It's hard to criticise Dylan for not living up to the
hype for the language, as there's been very little of that. A low
profile has some advantages, like allowing a language to mature, for
commercial implementations to emerge, and for programmers to gain
experience with it. When this changes, as I'm sure it will, then an
evaluation version will be exactly what a curious programmer will be
looking for. It'll also shape the first impressions that many will get
of Dylan. Right now, Mindy and D2C do that.
--
<URL:http://www.wildcard.demon.co.uk/> You can never browse enough
    "My body falls on you like a dead horse" -- Portait Chinois
            Please note: my email address is gubbish



Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?

With a mighty


Quote:
> The Personal Edition will not be free ;-)

That's no suprise. ;)

Quote:
> .. but the good news is that we intend to make it 'easily affordable'
> by anyone who can afford to own a computer. Final pricing decisions
> are still pending, so I'm not going to talk numbers!

Hmm. I didn't pay for my machine. Still, I wonder what percentage of
the cost of a machine (what spec?) you're thinking of? A C++ would
cost less than a tenth of the cost of my machine, but as I've said,  
I'm not necessarily a typical example.

I'll certainly be prepared to spend as much as a fifth of the cost of
my machine. See if you can guess what that might be. ;) However, I'm
hoping that the Personal Edition will cost far less than that. In
other words, competitive with a typical C++ system for Windows.

Quote:
> We have received a large number of Beta requests following our
> recent announcement, and will shortly be contacting a selected
> number of people with further details about the process. Those
> unable to participate in the first, early stage, will have another
> opportunity in the subsequent, wider phases of our program.

Excellent. Thanks.
--
<URL:http://www.wildcard.demon.co.uk/> You can never browse enough
    "My body falls on you like a dead horse" -- Portait Chinois
            Please note: my email address is gubbish


Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?


Quote:



>>  Since there is no "demo" version of "Lispworks for Windows", that would
....

>Actually, there is. I used it myself, before deciding to purchase LWW.
>Perhaps this is one of those well kept secrets? A little marketing

  Ooops, should have know this would be something you can request. Not quite
  the same status of FreeLisp or Franz's demos that are available straight
  off the web. ( of course downloaded multimegabyte demos is significantly
  faster when you're sitting on a very fast connection.)  

Quote:
>for Mindy Is Not Dylan Yet. Therefore, we should take care not to let
>people confuse Mindy with, say, DylanWorks.

  Well the fact that one is free and the other costs money should be a
  differentiator. :-)   An analogous situation might be to Sun's free "jdk"
  and commercial java implemenations. Not quite an exact analogy but
  close enough.

--

Lyman S. Taylor           "Computers are too reliable to replace

                                Commander Nathan Spring, "Starcops"



Tue, 11 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Harlequin DylanWorks Personal Edition ?

My body fell on Lyman S. Taylor like a dead horse,
who then wheezed these wise words:

Quote:
>   Ooops, should have know this would be something you can request. Not quite
>   the same status of FreeLisp or Franz's demos that are available straight
>   off the web. ( of course downloaded multimegabyte demos is significantly
>   faster when you're sitting on a very fast connection.)  

I got my copy of LWW on a CD-ROM. When I purchased it, I got another
CD-ROM! All the docs are in HTML and PDF, which is excellent.

I think that Harlequin have done this well. The _only_ criticism worth
making is that they could let a few people know about it. Still, I bet
they'll get a few more requests for evaluation copies now!
--
<URL:http://www.wildcard.demon.co.uk/> You can never browse enough
    "My body falls on you like a dead horse" -- Portait Chinois
            Please note: my email address is gubbish



Wed, 12 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 7 post ] 

 Relevant Pages 

1. DylanWorks from Harlequin

2. Harlequin releases a free edition of MLWorks

3. Harlequin Dylan professional, enterprise editions

4. Announcing Harlequin Dylan Enterprise Edition

5. The patches to Graphical Personal Edition (Windows) are available

6. Graphical Eiffel for Windows, Personal Edition, is shipping

7. Involuntary posting - Re: GUI Classes in Personal Edition?

8. GUI Classes in Personal Edition?

9. Visual Prolog Personal Edition as freeware

10. Native XDS-x86 2.50, Personal Edition

11. Personal Edition?

12. Personal Edition of VisualAge

 

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software