Any news from Harlequin or CMU? 
Author Message
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

Hey there.

If anyone is still reading this group, I would like to ask the folks at
Gwydion and at Harlequin to contribute occasional status updates or
announcements or whatever, so that some minimal interest in Dylan can be
maintained.

I personally still hope to use Dylan commercially.  I hope I am not (just) a
hopeless dreamer.

Wasn't there supposed to be some Dylanworks product unvailing some time in
August?

What's up?

Don


        Software Manager
        NDC Systems                     818-939-3847
        5413 N. Irwindale Ave           Fax:939-3870
        Irwindale, CA, 91706

Disclaimer: These are my own personal opinions, and not those of my company,
or anyone else.



Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

I'd second that, and also add Digitool to the list. What's happening
with the PPC port of AppleDylan.

     www.mmcorp.com/~sam  |  the multimedia corporation  |  london  

            "     life is just a bowl of allbran,
             you wake up every morning and it's there"



Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

   I'd second that, and also add Digitool to the list. What's happening
   with the PPC port of AppleDylan.

Digitool says they include a demo of the PowerPC-native Apple Dylan on
the MCL 3.9 CD.

        -tre
--
Tom Emerson                                      Senior Software Engineer
Compiler Group                              Thinking Machines Corporation



Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?


Quote:


>   I'd second that, and also add Digitool to the list. What's happening
>   with the PPC port of AppleDylan.

>Digitool says they include a demo of the PowerPC-native Apple Dylan on
>the MCL 3.9 CD.

I believe the PPC native version will be available at MacWorld. In any
case, it's finished and will be released shortly.

  -Andrew



Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

   Gwydion and at Harlequin to contribute occasional status updates or
   announcements or whatever, so that some minimal interest in Dylan can be
   maintained.

The Gwydion group at CMU is still here and we are still working hard
on Dylan.  In fact, we're in better shape than ever before, since we
FINALLY have a few years of stable funding for our work from DARPA.
(Well, it's as stable as DARPA funding ever is.)  We also have a few
very strong relationships with companies, including Harlequin.  In the
past, we have had to struggle along with only a series of bridging
contracts from DARPA, and with lots of funding gaps.  That has
certainly slowed us down, but hopefully that phase is over.

A new Gwydion Dylan compiler is in the works that (for now) uses a
C-language back-end to generate the actual code.  It generates pretty
decent code -- much faster than Mindy -- but there's still a lot of
optimization to do, and a lot of bug-fixing.

In order to get to the point where we could make changes and recompile
with decent turn-around time, we went all-out to get to the point
where the compiler could compile itself and the runtime could run the
resulting code.  We're there now, but we now must put the dynamism and
good debugging back in -- the current system is rather static and
batch-oriented.

At this stage, the demands of a diverse user community would slow us
down a lot, so the system is only available for internal use and for
testing by our industrial consortium members.  I don't want to make a
prediction about when we might make a general release.  When it is
ready, we'll announce it on this newsgroup and it will appear on the
Gwydion home page: http://legend.gwydion.cs.cmu.edu/gwydion/

We are working closely with Harlequin to come up with the library
definitions that will comprise "greater Dylan", though such
discussions inevitably have their bumps and bruises.  Design is
continuing on our hypercode environment, but implementation is mostly
on hold while we concentrate on the "language side" for now.

Of course, like the rest of you, we have watched the amazing explosion
of interest in Java.  We have given careful thought to the possibility
of dropping Dylan and building our life-cycle evolutionary programming
environmnet around java instead.  Our conclusion is that we want to
continue with Dylan because it is a better evolutionary language in
many, many ways, and because much more care has gone into its design
-- one big reason why Java got out there first.  Java is a fine
language for writing dancing beans, but I think that when people turn
to much larger projects they will run up against some of its
fundamental limitations.

It may be that the Java explosion will actually help Dylan.  Java may
be a useful halfway house -- the language that convinces the hordes of
C and C++ programmers that they can live without pointer arithmetic
and that they can't live without automatic storage management.  And
that helping programmers and maintainers to produce programs and
upgrades more quickly, cleanly, and accurately is often worth a few
cycles at runtime.  If Java opens their eyes, they may then be ready
for an even better language of that sort.  We'll see.

-- Scott

===========================================================================

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Department of Computer Science          Fax:       412 268-5576
Carnegie Mellon University              Latitude:  40:26:46 N
5000 Forbes Avenue                      Longitude: 79:56:55 W
Pittsburgh, PA 15213                    Mood:      :-)
===========================================================================



Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

Quote:

> Hey there.

> If anyone is still reading this group, I would like to ask the folks at
> Gwydion and at Harlequin to contribute occasional status updates or
> announcements or whatever, so that some minimal interest in Dylan can be
> maintained.

Please rest assured that we at Harlequin are committed to delivering an industrial-strength
Dylan as soon as is possible.

[snip]

Quote:

> Wasn't there supposed to be some Dylanworks product unvailing some time in
> August?

At Object World West (in San Jose, Aug 18-22) we will be *previewing* our implementation of Dylan
at our booth - come along and meet us! There will be plenty of Dylan expertise on hand to answer
your questions.

Regards
Clive Harris
Product Marketing Manager
Harlequin.



Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

Quote:



>>Please rest assured that we at Harlequin are committed to delivering an industrial-strength
>>Dylan as soon as is possible.

[snip]

Quote:
>Hi,
>Does "committed to delivering" mean that there is a project team working
>on DylanWorks right now?  Or does it mean that the DylanWorks project has
>been put on hold while the team members work on some other project.

"Committed to delivering" means, absolutely, that there is a large
project team working on our Dylan product right now - and it is
growing (and if anybody feels they can contribute to the effort, I'll
be happy to collate and distribute any resumes e-mailed to me).

If the project were 'on hold' or in some other limbo, then we wouldn't
draw attention to that fact by taking the technology to Object World
West in a couple of weeks :0=)

Keep the faith!

Regards
Clive Harris
Product Marketing Manager
Harlequin.

Quote:
>Thanks in advance.



Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?


Quote:

> I believe the PPC native version will be available at MacWorld. In any
> case, it's finished and will be released shortly.

>   -Andrew

Any performance "teasers" you can give us - for example, how fast the
samples are built v. a Quadra 800?

-Paul-

--
Paul R. Potts - Technical Lead - Health Media Research Lab
University of Michigan - Comprehensive Cancer Center



Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?



Quote:


>> I believe the PPC native version will be available at MacWorld. In any
>> case, it's finished and will be released shortly.

>>   -Andrew

>Any performance "teasers" you can give us - for example, how fast the
>samples are built v. a Quadra 800?


I think, though, that he reads info-dylan and not this newsgroup.


Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?


Quote:

> environmnet around java instead.  Our conclusion is that we want to
> continue with Dylan because it is a better evolutionary language in
> many, many ways, and because much more care has gone into its design
> -- one big reason why Java got out there first.  Java is a fine
> language for writing dancing beans, but I think that when people turn
> to much larger projects they will run up against some of its
> fundamental limitations.
> -- Scott

I agree wholeheartedly, don't get caught up in the hype.  Rather than
switch to an interim, but dead end, course based on a hybred language,
stay with a clean, object oriented language.  I have be utilizing
OO-analysis to study systems and processes.  Most are jumping to Java
because it is so C and C++ like.  It is a specialized deritive, not an
evolutionary change and, most certainly, not an innovation.  Niche
implementations, like Java, are needed but the bigger need is still for
general purpose implementations, like Dylan.


Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?

Ahh, well, it sounds like I won't have long to wait. I dearly hope that
Apple will make it available with an arrangement similar to the Dylan
TR1 - for a very low price. From what I've heard, Apple sold a surprising
number of copies of the DR1; I couldn't say how many copies were sold, but
it was apparently enough to show that there was a lot of potential users
out there.

-Paul-

--
Paul R. Potts - Technical Lead - Health Media Research Lab
University of Michigan - Comprehensive Cancer Center



Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?



Quote:
> it was apparently enough to show that there was a lot of potential users

                                              ^^^

what tortured syntax. As a former English major, I must apologize.

-Paul-

--
Paul R. Potts - Technical Lead - Health Media Research Lab
University of Michigan - Comprehensive Cancer Center



Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Any news from Harlequin or CMU?



Quote:


>> it was apparently enough to show that there was a lot of potential users
>                                              ^^^

>what tortured syntax. As a former English major, I must apologize.

Well, having studied psychology and linguistics some in grad school,
I have to defend you against yourself here.

Whether this is correct or incorrect depends on whether you consider
container objects first class... um, I mean whether you consider
aggregation syntactically transparent to number agreement... or
something like that.

Notice that if you said "there was a group of potential users" it
would be fine.  But if you said "there was 150 million potential
users", it wouldn't.

There's considerable variation on this kind of thing between "standard"
American and "standard" British usages.

In "Oliver's Army", Elvis Costello (who's British) says "Oliver's army is
here to stay," but in the very next line, he says "Oliver's army are on
their way."  (Americans would generally say that "Oliver's army is on
its way".)

I have no idea whether this is "proper" English or not, but for different
kinds of constructions, we interpret sets as transparent  to "number"
(and use the plural, as though referring directly to the members of the
set) or as opaque (and use the singular, as though referring to the
set itself).

I'm pretty sure there's no well-defined rule that is anything but a
schoolmarmish bit of irrelevant prescriptive linguistics.

Clearly, this illustrates some poorly-thought-out language standardization.
It ought to be one way or the other, and in my view, you said the right
thing.

We now return to serious work...

--

| Papers on memory allocators, garbage collection, memory hierarchies,
| persistence and  Scheme interpreters and compilers available via ftp from
| ftp.cs.utexas.edu, in pub/garbage (or http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wilson/)      



Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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