Regarding Apple Dylan 
Author Message
 Regarding Apple Dylan

Hi there

Does anyone have any idea how many people are using ADTR, I for one
would love to continue with the product and have written some modules to
support Navigation, Appearance and OpenTransport, but I am concerned as
to whether it (ie the dev environment) will run under Carbon. Anyone
have any info ?

Vincent



Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan

Quote:

> Does anyone have any idea how many people are using ADTR, I for one would
> love to continue with the product and have written some modules to
> support Navigation, Appearance and OpenTransport, but I am concerned as
> to whether it (ie the dev environment) will run under Carbon. Anyone have
> any info ?

Unfortunately, the Apple Dylan Technology Release was abandoned. It was
written in MCL, though, so the prospects of it working under Carbon aren't
good at all.

MCL programs, in fact, seem to break after any major upgrade to the
operating system. Historically, the MacOS didn't export all the
functionality required for emphemeral garbage collection and other MCL
features, so MCL used lots of undocumented functions.

I'd be suprised if ADTR ran under the MacOS X Blue Box (when it ships),
never mind under Carbon.[*] Of course, I may be a hopeless pessimist in
this respect. It would be nice to be proven wrong.

Cheers,
Eric

[*] Can a program work under Carbon without a recompile, provided it only
uses APIs present in Carbon?



Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan

Quote:

> [*] Can a program work under Carbon without a recompile, provided it only
> uses APIs present in Carbon?

No, you have to recompile. And there's no such program I'm afraid. Call
InitGraf(), pop up the standard get file dialog, and you're not Carbon
compliant.

- Rob.
__________________________________________________________________
                           __            __    _      __        

http://www.lostwax.com/  / /__/ _ \(_-</ __/  | |/ |/ / - `/\ \ /
                        /____/\___/___/\__/   |__/|__/\_,_//_\_\



Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan

Quote:

> Hi there

> Does anyone have any idea how many people are using ADTR, I for one
> would love to continue with the product and have written some modules to
> support Navigation, Appearance and OpenTransport, but I am concerned as
> to whether it (ie the dev environment) will run under Carbon. Anyone
> have any info ?

> Vincent

The version of Mindy for CodeWarrior from a few years back had access to
much of the toolbox ( including the QuickTime Media layer ) built in. It
doesn't work with CW Pro, but I'd like to recreate that functionality (
and self-running Mindy bytecode documents ) when I get Mindy running
smoothly. :-)

- Rob.
__________________________________________________________________
                           __            __    _      __        

http://www.lostwax.com/  / /__/ _ \(_-</ __/  | |/ |/ / - `/\ \ /
                        /____/\___/___/\__/   |__/|__/\_,_//_\_\



Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan


Quote:


>> Does anyone have any idea how many people are using ADTR, I for one would

  Personally not too much right now. I don't have access to a Mac with
  enough "horsepower" to run it.  Getting a new Mac is creeping higher
  on my wish list though. :-)  Harlequin Dylan is one if the very
  few reasons I ever boot up NT anymore. Of course, I didn't particularly
  like Windows in the first place.

Quote:
>> to whether it (ie the dev environment) will run under Carbon. Anyone have
>> any info ?

>Unfortunately, the Apple Dylan Technology Release was abandoned. It was
>written in MCL, though, so the prospects of it working under Carbon aren't
>good at all.

   Good News, Bad News....

Bad News,

   Unless there is a new release from Digitool, no. Currently MCL
   doesn't run in the "Blue Box".   Running MCL through "Carbon Dater"
   reports some nontrival problems.

   I haven't heard if the MacOS 8.6 nanokernel gets in MCL's way or not yet.
   Some reports say it has "guard pages" and others don't. If it does
   I would suspect problems since MCL has its own "guard pages"; among
   other potential incompatibilities.

   I think it is inconclusive whether Carbon provides the functionality
   needed or not. So it  is possible that once again Digitool will have
   to venture outside the API to get what they need.  [ It may be easier to
   deal with the nanokernel (follow-ons to 8.6) than with Mach X.X .
   It will definately be a pain in the {*filter*}if the two require different
   work arounds. Digitool does "miracles" with the small staff they
   have. Major differences would require a real miracle.   ]

   Digitool will only "fix" what is wrong with MCL runtime that the
   ADTR is leveraged on top of.  If the ADTR explicitly
   makes non-Carbon calls then prospects are likely dim.
   [ I suspect that the "tether" arrangement between the environment and
     application isn't exactly "standard" code. ]  Unfortunately,
   I'm inclined to belief that this will be the "show stopper".
   Not the MCL component, but the explicit code and calls to the
   Toolbox.

Good News,

   Carbon (MacOS X "client" )  doesn't exist yet.... as a shipping product.
   Operating systems never ship on time....... ;-)

   Digitool is working on updating MCL's "core" again.  Whether they can
   update MCL before Carbon ships ( my guess early next year) is
   open for debate.  I wouldn't bet against them. ;-)   However, I'd bet
   that the "next generation" MCL would appear about the same time as Carbon.
   So there won't be much lead time, if any.  

   I'm not sure what terms they still have on "recompiling and distributing"
   the ADTR.  I could have sworn it was on the last CD-ROM. If so, it would
   definately be "as is".

   For pure hacking pleasure ADTR is likely viable for a while longer.
   For a commerical enterprise you'd have to have a high risk tolerance
   to continue on that path.

--

Lyman S. Taylor           "Computers are too reliable to replace

                                Commander Nathan Spring, "Starcops"



Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan


Quote:



>>> Does anyone have any idea how many people are using ADTR, I for one would

>  Personally not too much right now. I don't have access to a Mac with
>  enough "horsepower" to run it.  Getting a new Mac is creeping higher
>  on my wish list though. :-)  Harlequin Dylan is one if the very
>  few reasons I ever boot up NT anymore. Of course, I didn't particularly
>  like Windows in the first place.

Of course, the ideal would be for Harlequin to come out with a Dylan for
MacOS... I can only afford one new computer right now, it's going to have
to be another Mac, but Harlequin Dylan alone is enough to make me wish
for a Windows machine.

--
Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA



Sun, 09 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan

Quote:

> Of course, the ideal would be for Harlequin to come out with a Dylan for
> MacOS...

I think they still have a survey up for you to reccomend other platforms
for Harlequin Dylan ( or maybe it's just when you download the demo ).
Fill it out and think positive thoughts. :-)

- Rob
__________________________________________________________________
                           __            __    _      __        

http://www.lostwax.com/  / /__/ _ \(_-</ __/  | |/ |/ / - `/\ \ /
                        /____/\___/___/\__/   |__/|__/\_,_//_\_\



Sun, 09 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Regarding Apple Dylan


Quote:

>> Of course, the ideal would be for Harlequin to come out with a Dylan for
>> MacOS...

>I think they still have a survey up for you to reccomend other platforms
>for Harlequin Dylan ( or maybe it's just when you download the demo ).
>Fill it out and think positive thoughts. :-)

I did.
First choice: MacOS
Second choice: MacOS
Third choice: MacOS

--
Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA



Sun, 09 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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