Databases vs. Free Tables 
Author Message
 Databases vs. Free Tables

Hi, all...

Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced in Visual FoxPro.

Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the information that I am a little new
to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y' continues to make perfect
sense to me.

What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal relationship with it, e.g., browse
the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child records in another browse
below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can be pretty hard-headed.

Jeff



Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables

Quote:

> Hi, all...

> Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced in Visual FoxPro.

> Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the information that I am a little new
> to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
> ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y' continues to make perfect
> sense to me.

> What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal relationship with it, e.g., browse
> the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child records in another browse
> below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

> If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can be pretty hard-headed.

Prepare to be deluged with information, Jeff.

-- TRW



Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Jeff
The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
-Anders

Quote:

>Hi, all...

>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced
in Visual FoxPro.

>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the

information that I am a little new
Quote:
>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old

school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
Quote:
>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'

continues to make perfect
Quote:
>sense to me.

>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal relationship

with it, e.g., browse
Quote:
>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child

records in another browse
Quote:
>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can

be pretty hard-headed.
Quote:

>Jeff



Wed, 14 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
That's a pretty strong argument for the .DBC -- the ability to manipulate data as an object. Am I on
target with this?

Jeff

Quote:

>Jeff
>The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
>-Anders


>>Hi, all...

>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced
>in Visual FoxPro.

>>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the
>information that I am a little new
>>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old
>school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
>>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'
>continues to make perfect
>>sense to me.

>>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal relationship
>with it, e.g., browse
>>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child
>records in another browse
>>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can
>be pretty hard-headed.

>>Jeff



Thu, 15 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Hi Jeff

Quote:

>That's a pretty strong argument for the .DBC -- the ability to manipulate

data as an object. Am I on

Quote:
>target with this?

Jeff,
Not really. A table doesn't have to belong to a database for it to be put
into form's DataEnvironment. You can enter free tables as well, and views.
The 'persistent' relationships set up for tables in the database will passed
on to the DE, though one can remove them or reverse them, even visually by
operating on the line the connects related tables.
Some people use the DE only to populate the dataenvironment, then
autogenerate a program that will open  tables, set up relationships etc.
The objects and properties relating to the dataenvironment is, if you
compare it to DAO for instance,pretty rudimentary.
There are no limits of course to creating classes to represent the data of
the business at hand, business objects.
The DBC harbors a bunch of properties for tables and views, but not really
as  classes of objects and properties but as arguments and parameters of the
DBGetProp and DBSetProp functions. The CursorSetProp function applies to all
tables, cursors and views, including free tables.
Only tables in a database can have Primary keys, Defaults and Checks
(automatic row and column value validation), supervised by the database at
data engine level. Triggers work only for database tables. Transaction works
only for tables belonging to the database. Buffering, with theTablesUpdate
() and TableRevert()  functions,  works for free tables too.

-Anders

Quote:
-----Original Message-----

Newsgroups: comp.databases.xbase.fox

Date: s?ndag den 30 augusti 1998 16:51
Subject: Re: Databases vs. Free Tables

>That's a pretty strong argument for the .DBC -- the ability to manipulate
data as an object. Am I on
>target with this?

>Jeff

>On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:38:27 GMT, "Anders Altberg"

>>Jeff
>>The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
>>-Anders


>>>Hi, all...

>>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container
introduced
>>in Visual FoxPro.

>>>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the
>>information that I am a little new
>>>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old
>>school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
>>>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'
>>continues to make perfect
>>>sense to me.

>>>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal
relationship
>>with it, e.g., browse
>>>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child
>>records in another browse
>>>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>>>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I
can
>>be pretty hard-headed.

>>>Jeff

>Jeff

>On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:38:27 GMT, "Anders Altberg"

>>Jeff
>>The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
>>-Anders


>>>Hi, all...

>>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container
introduced
>>in Visual FoxPro.

>>>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the
>>information that I am a little new
>>>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old
>>school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
>>>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'
>>continues to make perfect
>>>sense to me.

>>>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal
relationship
>>with it, e.g., browse
>>>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child
>>records in another browse
>>>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>>>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I
can
>>be pretty hard-headed.

>>>Jeff



Thu, 15 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Whew! That's an earful!

Excellent info -- thanks. I'll keep it on hand for study.

I have a copy of Tamar Granor's 'Hacker's Guide to VFP3'. I imagine this'd be a good place to start
to better understand some of these concepts?

Trouble is, I'm impatient to start right away, as if I'd known these things since birth. I don't
think that's going to happen. I suppose something worth having is worth getting, right?

Regards,
Jeff

Quote:

>Hi Jeff


>>That's a pretty strong argument for the .DBC -- the ability to manipulate
>data as an object. Am I on
>>target with this?

>Jeff,
>Not really. A table doesn't have to belong to a database for it to be put
>into form's DataEnvironment. You can enter free tables as well, and views.
>The 'persistent' relationships set up for tables in the database will passed
>on to the DE, though one can remove them or reverse them, even visually by
>operating on the line the connects related tables.
>Some people use the DE only to populate the dataenvironment, then
>autogenerate a program that will open  tables, set up relationships etc.
>The objects and properties relating to the dataenvironment is, if you
>compare it to DAO for instance,pretty rudimentary.
>There are no limits of course to creating classes to represent the data of
>the business at hand, business objects.
>The DBC harbors a bunch of properties for tables and views, but not really
>as  classes of objects and properties but as arguments and parameters of the
>DBGetProp and DBSetProp functions. The CursorSetProp function applies to all
>tables, cursors and views, including free tables.
>Only tables in a database can have Primary keys, Defaults and Checks
>(automatic row and column value validation), supervised by the database at
>data engine level. Triggers work only for database tables. Transaction works
>only for tables belonging to the database. Buffering, with theTablesUpdate
>() and TableRevert()  functions,  works for free tables too.

>-Anders

>-----Original Message-----

>Newsgroups: comp.databases.xbase.fox

>Date: s?ndag den 30 augusti 1998 16:51
>Subject: Re: Databases vs. Free Tables

>>That's a pretty strong argument for the .DBC -- the ability to manipulate
>data as an object. Am I on
>>target with this?

>>Jeff

>>On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:38:27 GMT, "Anders Altberg"

>>>Jeff
>>>The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
>>>-Anders


>>>>Hi, all...

>>>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container
>introduced
>>>in Visual FoxPro.

>>>>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the
>>>information that I am a little new
>>>>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old
>>>school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
>>>>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'
>>>continues to make perfect
>>>>sense to me.

>>>>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal
>relationship
>>>with it, e.g., browse
>>>>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child
>>>records in another browse
>>>>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>>>>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I
>can
>>>be pretty hard-headed.

>>>>Jeff

>>Jeff

>>On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:38:27 GMT, "Anders Altberg"

>>>Jeff
>>>The Relation object has a OneToMany property. That's SET SKIP.
>>>-Anders


>>>>Hi, all...

>>>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container
>introduced
>>>in Visual FoxPro.

>>>>Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the
>>>information that I am a little new
>>>>to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old
>>>school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
>>>>ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'
>>>continues to make perfect
>>>>sense to me.

>>>>What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal
>relationship
>>>with it, e.g., browse
>>>>the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child
>>>records in another browse
>>>>below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

>>>>If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I
>can
>>>be pretty hard-headed.

>>>>Jeff



Thu, 15 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables

Quote:

> Hi, all...

> Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced in Visual FoxPro.

[snip]

> If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can be pretty hard-headed.

well, i don't consider myself any VFP expert, but there a couple
advantages i can think of in using the dbc.

first off, (iirc) you can use the newer data types, like currency,
integer, etc...

also, (i am not positive on this one) you can use longer field name.

you can set default values.

you can create triggers for updating and other actions in the tables.

you can set up validation rules.

i believe you are granted more index types.

you get a visual environment to set up your relationships.

if you open the dbc (i am still working on this concept) it will make
all the 'known' to vfp so you do not have to specifically open each
table.  i am actually having trouble with this one, but i believe this
is what people are telling me.

there are probably other bonuses too, but those are the ones i can list
off the top of my head.  i am sure there is someone out there who can
explain better than i, but i thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

--jeremy



Fri, 16 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Quote:

>Hi, all...
>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced

in Visual FoxPro.

Jeff, it's NOT a container! I repeat.. it's NOT a container! In the
beginning I thought that, starting with VFP, we would have a new type of
file that contains a lot of tables. NOT TRUE. It's simply a table like all
other tables (try to open it, e.g. USE SOLUTIONS.DBC) that simply contains
some meta-info about some still stand-alone tables.

Nevertheless... that meta-info is worth a lot and several new features of
VFP use it and will make your life easier... in the long run.... I hope...
sincerely.

Groeten uit Holland
Peter



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
2 cents? Sounds like more than just a few quarters to me...

Thanks!

Jeff

Quote:


>> Hi, all...

>> Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced in Visual FoxPro.

>[snip]

>> If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can be pretty hard-headed.

>well, i don't consider myself any VFP expert, but there a couple
>advantages i can think of in using the dbc.

>first off, (iirc) you can use the newer data types, like currency,
>integer, etc...

>also, (i am not positive on this one) you can use longer field name.

>you can set default values.

>you can create triggers for updating and other actions in the tables.

>you can set up validation rules.

>i believe you are granted more index types.

>you get a visual environment to set up your relationships.

>if you open the dbc (i am still working on this concept) it will make
>all the 'known' to vfp so you do not have to specifically open each
>table.  i am actually having trouble with this one, but i believe this
>is what people are telling me.

>there are probably other bonuses too, but those are the ones i can list
>off the top of my head.  i am sure there is someone out there who can
>explain better than i, but i thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

>--jeremy



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Hm... did somebody say 'It's not a container'?

I thought so!

I've received several valuable posts (yours included) resulting from my inflammatory remarks, and I
promise to study hard so that I'll know what all this stuff is about.

Thanks for the insight!

Regards,
Jeff


Quote:

>>Hi, all...
>>Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced
>in Visual FoxPro.

>Jeff, it's NOT a container! I repeat.. it's NOT a container! In the
>beginning I thought that, starting with VFP, we would have a new type of
>file that contains a lot of tables. NOT TRUE. It's simply a table like all
>other tables (try to open it, e.g. USE SOLUTIONS.DBC) that simply contains
>some meta-info about some still stand-alone tables.

>Nevertheless... that meta-info is worth a lot and several new features of
>VFP use it and will make your life easier... in the long run.... I hope...
>sincerely.

>Groeten uit Holland
>Peter



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
The database concept in VFP has many features built-in which can help you
do things quickly but.. you pay a price.  They are very restrictive and not
flexible when compare with free tables which you can program whatever you
like.  For those programmers that like to have maximum control of the
tables and avoid any restrictions like me, I simply stay away to use
database.

I don't object the developers to add more features to database in the
future version of VFP.  But I'd to see they can retain the flexibilities of
free tables.

Brian.



Quote:
> Hi, all...

> Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container

introduced in Visual FoxPro.
Quote:

> Now, this having been said (SET FLAMEBAIT ON), I shall offer the

information that I am a little new
Quote:
> to VFP, and still find within myself a tendency to adhere to the 'old

school' of things. 'USE x IN 0
Quote:
> ORDER y' still floats my boat just fine, and 'SET RELATION TO x INTO y'

continues to make perfect
Quote:
> sense to me.

> What's the darned thing for, anyway? I can't even set a normal

relationship with it, e.g., browse
Quote:
> the parent table at the top of my screen while viewing the related child

records in another browse
Quote:
> below. I don't see anything in there about 'SET SKIP TO x'.

> If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I

can be pretty hard-headed.
Quote:

> Jeff



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
I have been reading this thread to try to learn something regarding Databases vs. Free Tables.

While I had the VFP 5.0 set, I read thru the book (MS documents that comes with program). I noticed
"container" and "control". Could I ask for "simple english" explaination on what those means?

I do not have the VFP 5.0, I returned it for the VFP 6.0 (still waiting for it, as today is Sept 1,
1998). FYI, I have made up my mind to stick with Databases, so that I have "everything" if I "thought"
of something "later". I am newbie with Visual FoxPro (I am at FPW 2.6 level).

Chuck



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables

Quote:


>> Hi, all...

>> Call me silly, but I see no advantage to the Database Container introduced in Visual FoxPro.

>[snip]

>> If I need to be set straight, by all means do so. But make it good -- I can be pretty hard-headed.

>well, i don't consider myself any VFP expert, but there a couple
>advantages i can think of in using the dbc.

>first off, (iirc) you can use the newer data types, like currency,
>integer, etc...

     Free tables can use the newer types, too.  The .dbc does not
contain the tables' definitions.

Quote:
>also, (i am not positive on this one) you can use longer field name.

     Yes, but don't lose your .dbc to corruption or it could get ugly.

[snip: Yes to them]

Quote:
>i believe you are granted more index types.

     What are you talking about here?  Primary, candidate, etc.?  If
so, that is SQL not the .dbc.

Quote:
>you get a visual environment to set up your relationships.

     It's called VFP?

Quote:
>if you open the dbc (i am still working on this concept) it will make
>all the 'known' to vfp so you do not have to specifically open each
>table.  i am actually having trouble with this one, but i believe this
>is what people are telling me.

     What do you mean here?  Dataenvironment?  I haven't used it, but
it isn't a function of the .dbc AFAIK.

Quote:
>there are probably other bonuses too, but those are the ones i can list
>off the top of my head.  i am sure there is someone out there who can
>explain better than i, but i thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

     I tried using a .dbc with my app and finally gave it up as it was
screwing up table transfers.  Due to the way that the app is used, the
entire dataset is often moved between a couple of machines and a copy
is occasionally sent to me.  As I use different directories, VFP was
reporting the database corrupt.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables

Quote:

>The database concept in VFP has many features built-in which can help you
>do things quickly but.. you pay a price.  They are very restrictive and not
>flexible when compare with free tables which you can program whatever you
>like.  For those programmers that like to have maximum control of the
>tables and avoid any restrictions like me, I simply stay away to use
>database.

     I stay away from databases myself, but name one thing that you
lose when going from free tables to a database.  OTOH, there are quite
a few things that you gain as a result.  I just haven't found any need
for them yet.

Quote:
>I don't object the developers to add more features to database in the
>future version of VFP.  But I'd to see they can retain the flexibilities of
>free tables.

[snipped previous]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.



Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Databases vs. Free Tables
Hmmm....what about the networking side of this?
The free tables vs. databases....
The network traffic between the usage of one versus the other???


Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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