Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3 
Author Message
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3

I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program from
Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
1. Is Visual Objects still available.
2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos, and
it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work when
run on a Windows 2000 box.

Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
--
Ari Ukkonen
ari at customhouse dot com



Wed, 05 May 2004 08:27:59 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Ari,

Quote:

> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program from
> Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.

Good luck.

Quote:
> 1. Is Visual Objects still available.

Yes.

Quote:
> 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?

Not yet sure about XP (for my own purposes), but I expect it will be ok. NT and
W2K are excellent platforms for VO though. Go straight to V2.5 though.

Quote:
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software

Forget porting; expect a major rewrite exercise.

Quote:

> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos, and
> it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work when
> run on a Windows 2000 box.

I would look at your bex's settings for this. I have all manner of devices
talking to W2K boxes.

Quote:
> Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?

A long time ago. VO, IMHO, is a far better product.

--
g.
Gary Stark

http://RedbacksWeb.com



Wed, 05 May 2004 09:35:43 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Ari,

Along with what Gary replied, you should at least download the trial version
of VO2.5 and play around with it.  Build a small app with it and ask
questions here.  We will do our best to help.

As for porting, most of your business logic will stay close to intact and is
the easy part.  The tough part is the GUI and the event mechanism, to a
newbie anyways.

But don't let that discourage you.  We are here to help if the need arises.

Hope this helps.

--
Stephane Hebert
=========================

Remove yourpants~ to reply
=========================


Quote:
> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program
from
> Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,
and
> it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work
when
> run on a Windows 2000 box.

> Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> --
> Ari Ukkonen
> ari at customhouse dot com



Wed, 05 May 2004 09:58:49 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Ari,

Only 2 things to add to the other comments. Last year we did look at Clip
for Win and I have 2 words: Forget it! The output looks and feels like 16
bit solutions. Its not a shadow to VO. Secondly, there is very little that
won't run under W2K. Usually the problem is the device driver. VO itself is
just fine for all flavours of NT so as long as you have appropriate drivers
for the physical devices, it should all run properly.

Geoff


Quote:
> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program
from
> Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,
and
> it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work
when
> run on a Windows 2000 box.

> Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> --
> Ari Ukkonen
> ari at customhouse dot com



Wed, 05 May 2004 16:48:16 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Have you see Xbase++ ? (www.alaska-software.com) this is IMO the real
clipper for windows
This product expecially with eXPress++ library (www.donnay-software.com) is
a very good choice for
porting in GUI your app withouth a majoir revrite
You must wrap your command used from Escape library
Wich Comunication library are you using in clipper?

I have an Xbase++ application used on XP from two week without problem



Quote:
> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program
from
> Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,
and
> it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work
when
> run on a Windows 2000 box.

> Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> --
> Ari Ukkonen
> ari at customhouse dot com



Wed, 05 May 2004 19:42:45 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
We bought xBase++ (from beta to 1.7) and Steve Quinn spent a few months
working on a Clipper port to Windows.  In fact we had an application running
as a 32bit application in 9 hours. I was impressed, but then the reality
hit... we now had a 10 times bigger terminal application in Windows.  It was
a rewrite whether you went to fulll xBAse route or VO route.

We did the same job in VO and we do not use xBase anymore but I respect if
others can get a good result, good on them.  Without an IDE to save you
doing a lot of work that VO does for you automatically it is just Clipper
for Windows.

That is no repository, there is no editor, you create your own link scripts,
you do a lot of hand coding (unnecessarily) and it unfortunately has the
limitations that Clipper imposes on you. The database access is much slower
than VO and only up until recently you could not scope indexes.  Clipper was
not written as an event driven, GUI system.

However if xBase resolves these and some stability issues there is still a
lot of Clipper code to be moved to Windows.

However VO2.5 in combination with bBrowser is definitely the best and
fastest way to re-write Clipper to Windows.

Phil McGuinness



Thu, 06 May 2004 05:26:15 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Ari,

Quote:
> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program

from

I did exactly that a couple of months ago. The POS is stable, fast even with
old hardware and is using a special kind of fiscal printer that is available
only here in Brazil. The customer is very happy with the results.

Quote:
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,

and

Yes, youll need to do a major rewrite. Go for it and you'll save time.

What kind of computer are you going to use in yours POS?

Regards,
Johel



Thu, 06 May 2004 08:17:50 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Ari,

Quote:
> I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program

from

I did exactly that a couple of months ago. The POS is stable, fast even with
old hardware and is using a special kind of fiscal printer that is available
only here in Brazil. The customer is very happy with the results.

Quote:
> 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,

and

Yes, youll need to do a major rewrite. Go for it and you'll save time.

What kind of computer are you going to use in yours POS?

Regards,
Johel



Thu, 06 May 2004 08:25:59 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Oh boy... sad comment <g>.

Yes, I might agree that if all you want is a quick conversion, Alaska's
stuff might work. But if you now want an OOP platform for the development,
maintenance and enhancement of the application, or to break into the API
world, forget it. You are wasting your time.

Geoff


Quote:
> Have you see Xbase++ ? (www.alaska-software.com) this is IMO the real
> clipper for windows
> This product expecially with eXPress++ library (www.donnay-software.com)
is
> a very good choice for
> porting in GUI your app withouth a majoir revrite
> You must wrap your command used from Escape library
> Wich Comunication library are you using in clipper?

> I have an Xbase++ application used on XP from two week without problem



> > I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale program
> from
> > Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> > 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> > 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> > 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our software
> > makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and logos,
> and
> > it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to work
> when
> > run on a Windows 2000 box.

> > Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> > --
> > Ari Ukkonen
> > ari at customhouse dot com



Thu, 06 May 2004 08:37:19 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Geoff,
If you advise to "forget about Alaska stuff", do you only refer to their
Text mode or also to the graphic mode (PM:PM)? In other words, are the
differences in quality between CAVO and ALASKA that big?

This is important to me. I have to make a decision as well.

Henk



Quote:
> Oh boy... sad comment <g>.

> Yes, I might agree that if all you want is a quick conversion, Alaska's
> stuff might work. But if you now want an OOP platform for the development,
> maintenance and enhancement of the application, or to break into the API
> world, forget it. You are wasting your time.

> Geoff



> > Have you see Xbase++ ? (www.alaska-software.com) this is IMO the real
> > clipper for windows
> > This product expecially with eXPress++ library (www.donnay-software.com)
> is
> > a very good choice for
> > porting in GUI your app withouth a majoir revrite
> > You must wrap your command used from Escape library
> > Wich Comunication library are you using in clipper?

> > I have an Xbase++ application used on XP from two week without problem



> > > I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale
program
> > from
> > > Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> > > 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> > > 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> > > 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our
software
> > > makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and
logos,
> > and
> > > it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to
work
> > when
> > > run on a Windows 2000 box.

> > > Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> > > --
> > > Ari Ukkonen
> > > ari at customhouse dot com



Fri, 07 May 2004 05:13:23 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Henk,

Both modes. Not worth a pinch of shit. We had the misfortune of looking at a
FiveWin conversion job (it was Clipper code the user misguidedly took to
FiveWin as "Windows"). Instead, that user wanted to defect to Alaska given
the parlous state of FiveWin and its warring owners. We took a look, not a
totally detailed look but a reasonable one and did not like what we saw.
There just aren't the class libararies there are in VO, the look and feel is
substandard, there isn't the messaging overlay that we have with VO, not
sufficiently OOP, no GC, there isn't an SDK.... the list was too long so we
walked away.

Geoff


Quote:
> Geoff,
> If you advise to "forget about Alaska stuff", do you only refer to their
> Text mode or also to the graphic mode (PM:PM)? In other words, are the
> differences in quality between CAVO and ALASKA that big?

> This is important to me. I have to make a decision as well.

> Henk



> > Oh boy... sad comment <g>.

> > Yes, I might agree that if all you want is a quick conversion, Alaska's
> > stuff might work. But if you now want an OOP platform for the
development,
> > maintenance and enhancement of the application, or to break into the API
> > world, forget it. You are wasting your time.

> > Geoff



> > > Have you see Xbase++ ? (www.alaska-software.com) this is IMO the real
> > > clipper for windows
> > > This product expecially with eXPress++ library

(www.donnay-software.com)

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> > is
> > > a very good choice for
> > > porting in GUI your app withouth a majoir revrite
> > > You must wrap your command used from Escape library
> > > Wich Comunication library are you using in clipper?

> > > I have an Xbase++ application used on XP from two week without problem



> > > > I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale
> program
> > > from
> > > > Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> > > > 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> > > > 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> > > > 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our
> software
> > > > makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and
> logos,
> > > and
> > > > it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to
> work
> > > when
> > > > run on a Windows 2000 box.

> > > > Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> > > > --
> > > > Ari Ukkonen
> > > > ari at customhouse dot com



Fri, 07 May 2004 05:46:32 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
When VO was first released, I remembered reading that VO generated EXE files
that were several megs for the smallest applications.  Is this still true
with the current release?


Quote:
> Henk,

> Both modes. Not worth a pinch of shit. We had the misfortune of looking at
a
> FiveWin conversion job (it was Clipper code the user misguidedly took to
> FiveWin as "Windows"). Instead, that user wanted to defect to Alaska given
> the parlous state of FiveWin and its warring owners. We took a look, not a
> totally detailed look but a reasonable one and did not like what we saw.
> There just aren't the class libararies there are in VO, the look and feel
is
> substandard, there isn't the messaging overlay that we have with VO, not
> sufficiently OOP, no GC, there isn't an SDK.... the list was too long so
we
> walked away.

> Geoff



> > Geoff,
> > If you advise to "forget about Alaska stuff", do you only refer to their
> > Text mode or also to the graphic mode (PM:PM)? In other words, are the
> > differences in quality between CAVO and ALASKA that big?

> > This is important to me. I have to make a decision as well.

> > Henk



> > > Oh boy... sad comment <g>.

> > > Yes, I might agree that if all you want is a quick conversion,
Alaska's
> > > stuff might work. But if you now want an OOP platform for the
> development,
> > > maintenance and enhancement of the application, or to break into the
API
> > > world, forget it. You are wasting your time.

> > > Geoff



> > > > Have you see Xbase++ ? (www.alaska-software.com) this is IMO the
real
> > > > clipper for windows
> > > > This product expecially with eXPress++ library
> (www.donnay-software.com)
> > > is
> > > > a very good choice for
> > > > porting in GUI your app withouth a majoir revrite
> > > > You must wrap your command used from Escape library
> > > > Wich Comunication library are you using in clipper?

> > > > I have an Xbase++ application used on XP from two week without
problem



> > > > > I've been asked to research porting our company's point of sale
> > program
> > > > from
> > > > > Clipper to the windows platform. I have a few questions.
> > > > > 1. Is Visual Objects still available.
> > > > > 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?
> > > > > 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite? Our
> > software
> > > > > makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures and
> > logos,
> > > > and
> > > > > it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not seem to
> > work
> > > > when
> > > > > run on a Windows 2000 box.

> > > > > Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ari Ukkonen
> > > > > ari at customhouse dot com



Fri, 07 May 2004 08:11:32 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
You can generate a VO exe under 100k... I think as low as 64k from memory.

Once you start adding in RDD's and GUI classes etc. this is where the larger
files come from.

Phil McGuinness
-----------------------



Quote:
> When VO was first released, I remembered reading that VO generated EXE
files
> that were several megs for the smallest applications.  Is this still true
> with the current release?



> > Henk,



Fri, 07 May 2004 08:34:15 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3

"Ari Ukkonen

Quote:
> 1. Is Visual Objects still available.

Yes, http://www.grafxsoft.com/vo25.htm

Quote:
> 2. Does it support NT/Win2k/XP?

Yes,  Most of our apps run under NT or NT Server.

 3. Would porting a Clipper system involve a major rewrite?
Yes. Any one who tell you different is trying hard to sell you that product.

Quote:
> Our software makes use of TBROWSE, Escape Library for printing signatures

and logos, and it communicates with a Point of sale device which does not
seem to work
when> run on a Windows 2000 box
.
Like Clipper VO has a fairly strong 3 party community. The good news is that
since the drivers in Clipper and VO are made by the same people, you will
have 100% data compatiblility

Quote:
> Has anyone taken a look at Clip for Win?

Yes, and it a great product for 16 bit apps. Why would you want that ?

Hope this helps

Brian
http://www.grafxsoft.com



Fri, 07 May 2004 19:51:46 GMT  
 Clipper and Visual Objects - Porting from Clipper 5.3
Hi Software,

Whilst Phil is technically correct, a full GUI-enabled app worth its salt is
definitely going to be a few MB. However, so what? I think most of my apps
(equivalent to 400,000+ lines of clipper code) will measure 15MB or so when
all dll's are counted but again, so what? My apps load faster than Word or
Excel and the user has the full power of windows under his fingers.

If you are writing NT services, terminal apps etc then yes, they can be very
small but size simply doesn't count any more <g>.

Geoff



Fri, 07 May 2004 20:39:31 GMT  
 
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