NT Workstation or NT Server? 
Author Message
 NT Workstation or NT Server?

Given a new computer which should I set up to? Main focus would be using
it as Clarion Dev. Environment..

I would like to sometime in the future play with the Pervasive and don't
want to setup another machine just to do this..

at the same time I don't want to use NT server just to do every day
stuff..

pls advise

{*filter*}



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
If you absolutely need NT, go for the WS Edition.
Please note that most SW (like Oracle, Informix and PervasiveSQL) have
editions for Win98/95, so you may not need NT after ALL.

What not to do:
Dont do a double installation.
After sometime it will be a mess.
Double installation of products, incompatible filesystems (NTFS etc ).

I formated my machine, reinstalled Win98 and now work with:

CFD 3.102 /DOS
Clarion5EE with Informix 7.22PE/Pervasive SQL WS
Visual Cafe DatabaseEdition 3/ Oracle Lite

All is ok

Steven Sitas



Quote:
>Given a new computer which should I set up to? Main focus would be using
>it as Clarion Dev. Environment..

>I would like to sometime in the future play with the Pervasive and don't
>want to setup another machine just to do this..

>at the same time I don't want to use NT server just to do every day
>stuff..

>pls advise

>{*filter*}



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi there,

I had been using the NT Workstation SP4, very stable compared to WINDOWS 98,
which sometimes you have to move the mouse as the Clarion compiler tends to
hang half way, and continue to compile only when you move the mouse.  That
makes me recall the screen saver where the cat chased after the mouse.  When
the mouse remain stationary, the cat will stop and watch, afterwhich he will
only act only when the mouse starts to move again.  Well?? That gives the
programmers some excuses why they could not finish the software in time.

Thanks.

Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE


Quote:
> Given a new computer which should I set up to? Main focus would be using
> it as Clarion Dev. Environment..

> I would like to sometime in the future play with the Pervasive and don't
> want to setup another machine just to do this..

> at the same time I don't want to use NT server just to do every day
> stuff..

> pls advise

> {*filter*}



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
I would say NT4 WS. Server will take some or allot of your system resources
away from you. I'v been using NT WS since NT3.51 (+-1995) and has never
looked back. I have a test bed that runs 95 & 98 and they are resource
hungry.

All you need is a good and stable enviro. NT4 WS will give you that.

God Bless

Ray Dummer



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi Kelvin,

On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:59:32 +0800, "Kelvin Chua"

Quote:

>I had been using the NT Workstation SP4, very stable compared to WINDOWS 98,
>which sometimes you have to move the mouse as the Clarion compiler tends to
>hang half way, and continue to compile only when you move the mouse.  That

C4 or C5?  Never happened on my Win98 machine with C5 (5 months now)

Best regards,

Arnor Baldvinsson        
[Team Topspeed - Internet Connect]
Allerup Edb
Denmark

Check out Icetips and Icetips Knowledgebase
http://www.icetips.com
UIN nr.: 2428601



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi Kelvin,

I never had this problem either although I'm doing compiles everyday on
Win98.

I'm not sure NT is that stable. I have had unexplained troubles with NT at
one of my customers. NT would suddently say that it's missing disk space
although there were plenty of space available, or start giving me errors 47
with no reason. Turn of the system, sometimes 2 or 3 times, and the problems
are gone.

To my opinion, there may be less troubles with NT but they are a lot more
difficult to solve when they happen.

Regards
Michel Combe



Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
That I can agree.  One of the main reason I choose NT because I want my
system to be more secure, so that no one can just log in and play a fool.
As far as compatibility is concerned, WIN 98 should be much better.

Thanks.

Kelvin Chua
SINGAPORE


Quote:
> Hi Kelvin,

> I never had this problem either although I'm doing compiles everyday on
> Win98.

> I'm not sure NT is that stable. I have had unexplained troubles with NT at
> one of my customers. NT would suddently say that it's missing disk space
> although there were plenty of space available, or start giving me errors
47
> with no reason. Turn of the system, sometimes 2 or 3 times, and the
problems
> are gone.

> To my opinion, there may be less troubles with NT but they are a lot more
> difficult to solve when they happen.

> Regards
> Michel Combe



Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
NT 4 sp4 is very stable.  The biggest advantage I can tell between using Win
98 or NT would be the fact that it is near to impossible to crash an NT
workstation (considerable less rebooting of PC). GPF's don't phase the
environment one bit.

Also, NT has better tools that let you know what your memory resources look
like, and what it is actually taking up your cpu cycles. Don't believe that
Win 98 has advanced OS features like that of NT Task Manager.

Of course, If you plan on using your machine for other things like computer
{*filter*}, then Win 98 would probably be best.

Douglas Ibarra
Intellisoft
Miami, FL

Quote:

> I'm not sure NT is that stable. I have had unexplained troubles with NT at
> one of my customers. NT would suddently say that it's missing disk space
> although there were plenty of space available, or start giving me errors
47
> with no reason. Turn of the system, sometimes 2 or 3 times, and the
problems
> are gone.

> To my opinion, there may be less troubles with NT but they are a lot more
> difficult to solve when they happen.



Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi Douglas,

On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:52:09 -0400, "Douglas Ibarra"

Quote:

>NT 4 sp4 is very stable.  The biggest advantage I can tell between using Win
>98 or NT would be the fact that it is near to impossible to crash an NT
>workstation (considerable less rebooting of PC). GPF's don't phase the
>environment one bit.

I have reports that NT-WS suffers from the classic Deep-freeze crash
in clarion, though not nearly as much as Win95.  I have not got the
deep-freeze in Win98, but get it once in a while in 95.  This may be
related to hardware or setups or whatever, but it seems that all
windows versions suffer from it to some point:(

Best regards,

Arnor Baldvinsson        
[Team Topspeed - Internet Connect]
Allerup Edb
Denmark

Check out Icetips and Icetips Knowledgebase
http://www.icetips.com
UIN nr.: 2428601



Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Arnor

I have been using NT 4 for a while now... IMO those deep freezes occur very
very seldom. (and when they do, the Win NT Task Manager almost always can
shut the application down without crashing the rest of the OS)

The only problem I notice, which I think is the fault of CW, is that after a
while in the IDE and after compiling a few dozen times or so,  the IDE
starts slowing down (most noticeable in the compiling time).  Exiting CW and
re-entering almost always fixes that problem.  This slowdown doesn't seem to
have anything to do with the memory leaks that exist in the CW IDE, because
when I check my avail memory resources, there is still plenty.  (Have no
idea why these slowdowns occur, but its not too often so I don't complain)

Douglas Ibarra
Intellisoft
Miami, FL

Quote:
> I have reports that NT-WS suffers from the classic Deep-freeze crash
> in clarion, though not nearly as much as Win95.  I have not got the
> deep-freeze in Win98, but get it once in a while in 95.  This may be
> related to hardware or setups or whatever, but it seems that all
> windows versions suffer from it to some point:(



Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Arnor,

Quote:
> I have reports that NT-WS suffers from the classic Deep-freeze crash
> in clarion, though not nearly as much as Win95.

This surprises me. Mind you, I always run CW in its own memory space
but I've never had CW crash NT.

I have found that after a CW crash it's usually necessary to kill the
C5srvx.exe process manually.

Dave

Dave Harms

Clarion Magazine - The Information Source for Clarion Developers
http://www.clarionmag.com



Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi Douglas,

On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:17:37 -0400, "Douglas Ibarra"

Quote:

>I have been using NT 4 for a while now... IMO those deep freezes occur very
>very seldom. (and when they do, the Win NT Task Manager almost always can
>shut the application down without crashing the rest of the OS)

IF you can get keyboard and mouse interaction from the OS, it's not
the deep-freeze.  It shuts the keyboard up and the mouse pointer
moves, but does not interact with anything.

Quote:
>starts slowing down (most noticeable in the compiling time).  Exiting CW and
>re-entering almost always fixes that problem.  This slowdown doesn't seem to

I have not noticed this in Win95 or Win98.  Do you only see it in NT
or have you experienced it in 95/98 too?

Best regards,

Arnor Baldvinsson        
[Team Topspeed - Internet Connect]
Allerup Edb
Denmark

Check out Icetips and Icetips Knowledgebase
http://www.icetips.com
UIN nr.: 2428601



Wed, 26 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Arnor

Quote:
> I have not noticed this in Win95 or Win98.  Do you only see it in NT
> or have you experienced it in 95/98 too?

Ever since I switched to NT 4, I never find the urge to do my CW app work on
95/98.  However, when I did program under 95, I don't believe the symptoms
were exactly the same.  I think that 95 would start slowing down and the
quickly GPF soon after.  However, it is hard to say now, because I used to
program under early releases of C4 with 95 and it is was not nearly as
stable as the C5EE environment I program under now.  Can't say I have done
much with '98, not the person to give expertise on this OS.
The slowdown problem definitely exists under NT but is not too annoying of a
problem.  It never seems to crash the IDE or cause any other mishaps other
than just taking two to three times as long to compile.  The slowdown may be
more evident to me than other dev's because I am currently developing an app
that is quite large and have not found the time to break it into smaller
DLL's.

Quote:
> IF you can get keyboard and mouse interaction from the OS, it's not
> the deep-freeze.  It shuts the keyboard up and the mouse pointer
> moves, but does not interact with anything.

BTW, I misunderstood your definition of deep freeze... I have never seen my
NT workstation OS do what you have described (I have used both SP3 and SP4
only).

Douglas Ibarra
Intellisoft
Miami, FL



Wed, 26 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Arnor,

You must be bad luck for me tonight.  Just the mention of deep freeze and
defining it for me actually created the exact symptoms you mentioned.  Of
course, I was doing something I probably shoudn't have (stopping an OLE
export in mid-stream).

Anyway, I take back what I said about never seeing a deep-freeze under NT.
This has happened to me before (usually due to something dumb on my behalf),
but I never had a serious problem with it.  Ctrl-Alt-Del always brings up
the NT Task Manager and allows you to easily end the task of the offending
application.  Works 95% of the time.  As I recall, Win 95 almost never
successfully ends task that cause the system to lock.  Don't know about Win
98 however.

Douglas Ibarra
Intellisoft
Miami, Fl

Quote:
> IF you can get keyboard and mouse interaction from the OS, it's not
> the deep-freeze.  It shuts the keyboard up and the mouse pointer
> moves, but does not interact with anything.



Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 NT Workstation or NT Server?
Hi Douglas,

On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:14:24 -0400, "Douglas Ibarra"

Quote:

>You must be bad luck for me tonight.  Just the mention of deep freeze and
>defining it for me actually created the exact symptoms you mentioned.  Of
>course, I was doing something I probably shoudn't have (stopping an OLE
>export in mid-stream).

Hmm...  Bad luck for you, good for me<g>  I've claimed that this
happens on ALL windows OS' but so far have not been able to get much
evidence for NT cracking up, but it seems that now I have (at least
two NT users experiencing the deep-freeze)

Quote:
>but I never had a serious problem with it.  Ctrl-Alt-Del always brings up
>the NT Task Manager and allows you to easily end the task of the offending
>application.  Works 95% of the time.  As I recall, Win 95 almost never
>successfully ends task that cause the system to lock.  Don't know about Win
>98 however.

It seems to me that 98 is just about the same as 95, perhaps a bit
better.  

I have been able to duplicate the deep-freeze in a C5 program (not in
the IDE) by using system{Prop:Icon} which causes a resource leak (this
is fixed in C5A) and opening a window 10,000 times inside a loop and
then terminate the program.  When it's run again, it causes Win95 to
lock up in a very similar manner as the deep-freeze, except that the
mouse cursor disappears (this has been reported to happen occationally
on NT when the deep-freeze hits).  On Win98 I could run it twice, so
it crashed when opening window nr. 20,001.  The symptoms are always
the same:

1.  It happens when creating or destroying a window object (mostly
apparently the window itself)

2.  It's always preceeded with a short burst of disk activity (1-2
seconds)

3.  There is no keyboard or mouse interaction, but the mouse pointer
moves (when visible).

4.  It can happen after several hours of work in the IDE or it can
happen soon after starting work right after the machine is started
(not rebooted, but started fresh)

5.  There can be weeks between it happens, but I often experience it
2-4 times when it strikes.  I always turn my PC off after it strikes,
not just reboot.  

6.  It does not seem to be hardware related or it's related to
something very common (I've seen it happen on _all_ machines I've used
Clarion on)

8.  It is not related to available resources at the time it happens.
It may happen if the only program running is clarion after a fresh
machine start, or it may happens if you have 10 other programs
running.

7.  Similar crashes happen in other software too.  Most notably for me
is Pegasus Mail (only ca 2-3 times pr. year)

Best regards,

Arnor Baldvinsson        
[Team Topspeed - Internet Connect]
Allerup Edb
Denmark

Check out Icetips and Icetips Knowledgebase
http://www.icetips.com
UIN nr.: 2428601



Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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