An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice 
Author Message
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice

As a consultant I'm not too often on the cutting edge as most clients want
"tried and true" platforms, such as VB 6.0. I'm slated to start a new project
in a week or so to write a system in 6.0. However, I want to write it so that
it will run under .NET or at least have as few porting problems as possible
(writing in .NET beta is out of the question for this client.... it's either
VB or Java.)

Would some of you please publish a few links of VB sites that have some good
"what to do" tips on writing "new"  6.0 code that will eventually have to run
on the .NET platform.

Thank you.

Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company

--
============================
Hate Quickbooks? If you are in publishing or general  business, you must see
PUB123 or SOHO-123 (Small Office/Home Office), the newest and most affordable
back-office software systems available.   http://www.*-*-*.com/

============================



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:25:45 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice
Some info can be found here:

 http://home.earthlink.net/~butlerbob/VBNet/index.htm

Rob

Quote:

> As a consultant I'm not too often on the cutting edge as most clients want
> "tried and true" platforms, such as VB 6.0. I'm slated to start a new project
> in a week or so to write a system in 6.0. However, I want to write it so that
> it will run under .NET or at least have as few porting problems as possible
> (writing in .NET beta is out of the question for this client.... it's either
> VB or Java.)

> Would some of you please publish a few links of VB sites that have some good
> "what to do" tips on writing "new"  6.0 code that will eventually have to run
> on the .NET platform.

> Thank you.

> Al Canton
> Adams-Blake Company

> --
> ============================
> Hate Quickbooks? If you are in publishing or general  business, you must see
> PUB123 or SOHO-123 (Small Office/Home Office), the newest and most affordable
> back-office software systems available.  http://www.adams-blake.com

> ============================



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:51:53 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice
Hi, Al. Good to hear from you again.

Alas, even the Cheerleaders.NET seem to agree that it will be impossible to
port/convert a classic VB program of any significance, much less write a
program that will run under both VB6 and VB.NET. There were a couple of
articles in (the late, lamented) Visual Basic Programmer's Journal (now
being replaced by Visual Studio Magazine, starting with the September issue)
on things to do to _make it easier_ to manually convert. You might find
those at http://www.devx.org, and you'll definitely find some technical
discussion forums there.

Unfortunately, the _discussion_ forums there have divided into two separate
camps -- my guess is that you won't find much helpful information in the
discussion forums, though you might find them entertaining.

No one has been able to explain to me benefits sufficient for me to warrant
my investing the time and energy to learn VB.NET or C# or .NET, in general.
That's because all the highly-touted benefits are for huge, enterprise-wide
(I sometimes say "intergalactic-wide"), server-centric, thin-client
distributed applications and that's not what I do. My development focus is
on single-user standalone applications, straight two-tier client-server
applications (all on LAN or WAN, not via Internet, and user audiences with a
maximum in the low hundreds, usually far less) and some very simple Web
database applications that will never need to "scale" to the huge size that
.NET might benefit. Some have pointed out a few potential benefits, but
nothing to compare to the known losses (e.g., control arrays and variants,
just for two, and there are many) and the significant time and energy
required to unlearn and re-learn.


Quote:
> As a consultant I'm not too often on the cutting edge as most clients want
> "tried and true" platforms, such as VB 6.0. I'm slated to start a new
project
> in a week or so to write a system in 6.0. However, I want to write it so
that
> it will run under .NET or at least have as few porting problems as
possible
> (writing in .NET beta is out of the question for this client.... it's
either
> VB or Java.)

> Would some of you please publish a few links of VB sites that have some
good
> "what to do" tips on writing "new"  6.0 code that will eventually have to
run
> on the .NET platform.

> Thank you.

> Al Canton
> Adams-Blake Company

> --
> ============================
> Hate Quickbooks? If you are in publishing or general  business, you must
see
> PUB123 or SOHO-123 (Small Office/Home Office), the newest and most
affordable
> back-office software systems available.  http://www.adams-blake.com

> ============================



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 03:40:55 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice
Hi Larry... and others. It's been a while since I've been on this group and
I'm probably getting here very late when it comes to .NET. I always look for
Larry to post because over the years he has proved to be (to me anyway) the
closest thing to a VB "guru" that I know.

Is MS going to keep 6.0 on the market? I'm sure they won't continue to
support it, fix bugs, etc., but will it still be around for a while?

It seems to me that anyone starting a NEW project in the next few months
should go with .NET if they want to remain on the MS platform. Otherwise do
it in Java. I think that writing a new app in 6.0 would be an eventual waste
of time.

By the same token, I could see .NET taking a long time to get off the ground
and it may never even happen. Perhaps J2EE will "win" in the long run. I
basically don't care as I know the Java platform well enough to get by with
it and moving to .NET is not a big deal for anyone who has some experience in
the OOP world.

I neither love or hate MS ... any more than I love or hate the maker of the
shovel I dig up my garden with. It's just a tool. All I know is that .NET has
to come out of the box without the typical MS "show-stopper" bugs needing a
half dozen service packages... and it needs to be delivered SOON. Otherwise
(on both counts) many larger clients will go the Java route.

Thanks for you help and I hope that others will post sites or their own
opinions about whether new projects should be done in net-beta or in 6.0.

Al Canton


Quote:
> Hi, Al. Good to hear from you again.

> Alas, even the Cheerleaders.NET seem to agree that it will be impossible to
> port/convert a classic VB program of any significance, much less write a
> program that will run under both VB6 and VB.NET. There were a couple of
> articles in (the late, lamented) Visual Basic Programmer's Journal (now
> being replaced by Visual Studio Magazine, starting with the September
issue)
> on things to do to _make it easier_ to manually convert. You might find
> those at http://www.devx.org, and you'll definitely find some technical
> discussion forums there.

> Unfortunately, the _discussion_ forums there have divided into two separate
> camps -- my guess is that you won't find much helpful information in the
> discussion forums, though you might find them entertaining.

> No one has been able to explain to me benefits sufficient for me to warrant
> my investing the time and energy to learn VB.NET or C# or .NET, in general.
> That's because all the highly-touted benefits are for huge, enterprise-wide
> (I sometimes say "intergalactic-wide"), server-centric, thin-client
> distributed applications and that's not what I do. My development focus is
> on single-user standalone applications, straight two-tier client-server
> applications (all on LAN or WAN, not via Internet, and user audiences with
a
> maximum in the low hundreds, usually far less) and some very simple Web
> database applications that will never need to "scale" to the huge size that
> .NET might benefit. Some have pointed out a few potential benefits, but
> nothing to compare to the known losses (e.g., control arrays and variants,
> just for two, and there are many) and the significant time and energy
> required to unlearn and re-learn.



> > As a consultant I'm not too often on the cutting edge as most clients
want
> > "tried and true" platforms, such as VB 6.0. I'm slated to start a new
> project
> > in a week or so to write a system in 6.0. However, I want to write it so
> that
> > it will run under .NET or at least have as few porting problems as
> possible
> > (writing in .NET beta is out of the question for this client.... it's
> either
> > VB or Java.)

> > Would some of you please publish a few links of VB sites that have some
> good
> > "what to do" tips on writing "new"  6.0 code that will eventually have to
> run
> > on the .NET platform.

> > Thank you.

> > Al Canton
> > Adams-Blake Company

> > --
> > ============================
> > Hate Quickbooks? If you are in publishing or general  business, you must
> see
> > PUB123 or SOHO-123 (Small Office/Home Office), the newest and most
> affordable
> > back-office software systems available.  http://www.adams-blake.com

> > ============================



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:35:04 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice
Adams-Blake Company,

The followinf MS site is a good source:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/technical/upgrade/default.asp

IMO, VB.NET is the future, and while I wouldn't use it in Beta stage, I'll
have no reservations migrating to it when released.  As an aside I'm not
bothering to gain more than passing familiarity with C#: I figure VB[.NET]
on MS platforms and Java on all the rest should hold me in good stead--at
least it should, considering I don't intend to be in this racket much
longer.

--A



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:55:15 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice

Quote:

> As a consultant I'm not too often on the cutting edge as most clients want
> "tried and true" platforms, such as VB 6.0. I'm slated to start a new project
> in a week or so to write a system in 6.0. However, I want to write it so that
> it will run under .NET or at least have as few porting problems as possible
> (writing in .NET beta is out of the question for this client.... it's either
> VB or Java.)

> Would some of you please publish a few links of VB sites that have some good
> "what to do" tips on writing "new"  6.0 code that will eventually have to run
> on the .NET platform.

Forget it. You're boned! Data access with ADO.NET is *completely* different
from even ADO 2.6 SP1. Like VB.NET itself, its only similarity to the
"previous version" is the name. If you use classes to automate resource
management, especially public classes such as FSO's TextStream, you're
really screwed, because you never know when the "garbage collector" will
finally get around to taking out the trash. It's as if *every* day is a
Superbowl Sunday!

The (in)famous VB.NOT list:  http://www.mvps.org/vb/rants/vfred.htm

--

WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above        They're   coming  to
because  my cats have  apparently  learned to type.        take me away, ha ha!



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:07:40 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice
"Adams-Blake Company" wrote

 > Is MS going to keep 6.0 on the market? I'm
 > sure they won't continue to support it, fix bugs,
 > etc., but will it still be around for a while?

Direct statements from Microsofties _imply_ that it will be supported for a
long while. I have not seen a statement about how long it will continue to
be sold. And, given that they have not committed to any specific time, I'll
have to take whatever they say with the proverbial grain, or cellar, of
salt. I've had quoted to me that they "still support VB4" (but it's been an
awfully long time since there was a Service Pack for VB4!); in turn, I quote
back that they dropped support for VB-DOS in less than a year, and never
even bothered to issue a Service Pack, although there were enough known bugs
to justify one.

My personal guess is, that with the emphasis they are placing on .NET, that
they will not support VB6 one single nanosecond longer than they perceive
they _have to in order to avoid a PR nightmare_.

 > It seems to me that anyone starting a NEW
 > project in the next few months should go with
 > .NET if they want to remain on the MS platform.
 > Otherwise do it in Java. I think that writing a new
 > app in 6.0 would be an eventual waste of time.

The problem with Java is the same as the problem with VB.NET or C# -- you
are placing yourself at the mercy of the owner/vendor of a proprietary
language. You pays your money and takes your choice: Microsoft or Sun. There
are many who have said that they'll stick with what they're using until they
can find an Open Source solution to which to move.

As for me, well, I guess I must the the archtype of the Techno-Retro-Grouch
who was the target of Editor Elden Nelson's editorial in the final issue of
VBPJ. Within the last year, I did (for good and sufficient reasons) a
pro-bono Access project in Access 2.0 (at the request of the 'client').

What worries me is that with all eyes and brains in Redmond tightly focuses
on .NET, just how long is it going to be before whatever version of Windows
is bundled on new PCs breaks the old Windows code? I can't imagine that
maintaining backward compatibility with something in which Microsoft has
lost interest will be a matter of priority.



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:44:33 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice

Quote:
> Hi Larry... and others. It's been a while since I've been on this group
and
> I'm probably getting here very late when it comes to .NET. I always look
for
> Larry to post because over the years he has proved to be (to me anyway)
the
> closest thing to a VB "guru" that I know.

Flattery will get you everywhere!

Mike



Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:00:34 GMT  
 An experienced VB guy going to .NET needs advice

Quote:
> "Adams-Blake Company" wrote
> The problem with Java is the same as the problem with VB.NET or C# -- you
> are placing yourself at the mercy of the owner/vendor of a proprietary
> language. You pays your money and takes your choice: Microsoft or Sun. There
> are many who have said that they'll stick with what they're using until they
> can find an Open Source solution to which to move.

From my perspective, there's a fundamental difference between MS and Sun
here.  Sun has released open specifications and reference
implementations for both their JVM bytecode and the Java language
itself.  With those, it's possible to develop a fully compatible
version, and one open source project, Kaffe.org, is working on such a
version.  There's a robust community of platform, application server, and
add-on vendors.  There's the Java Community Process, by which changes to
the language are arrived at by consensus of interested parties both inside
and outside Sun.  

Compare that with Microsoft, who have never released the spec for VB's
pcode, who crowd out server vendors by integrating servers into their OS
and crowd out component vendors by shipping their own versions with VB, and
who make unilateral changes to the language from one version to another
with minimal input from outsiders (or who grudgingly make minor changes in
beta versions when developers scream {*filter*}y {*filter*}).

And I for one am glad that Java hasn't been submitted to an outside
standards body, because I'm quite skeptical of their usefulness when
there's no enforcement power.  Look at cascading stylesheets, for
example.  The CSS-1 spec is five years old; CSS-2 is three and a
half.  Microsoft claims to have support for CSS in IE, but except for IE
5.5 for the Mac, none of its browsers fully supports either version.  
Microsoft tried the same tactic with Java--producing its own version that
wasn't 100% compatible, yet still calling it Java.  If a group like the
W3C controlled the standard, nobody would be able to stop them from doing
so.  But because Sun still maintained control over the trademark, they were
able to stop Microsoft.

--



Sat, 17 Jan 2004 03:57:31 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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