Does Microsoft Certification mean $$$? 
Author Message
 Does Microsoft Certification mean $$$?

I'm not currently certified in anything by Microsoft.  I'm starting to see
more and more people with certification.

I'd like to hear from anyone who can tell me if Certification holds greater
meaning in terms of employment, than say... a CS or MIS degree?  I suspect
it might, since certification might convey actual knowledge in a given area,
whereas a degree means I sat through 3+ years of social studies, art
history, etc, and a semester of something remotely useful (well...at least
that was my own experience).

Please don't take me wrong, I'm not knocking a degree.  And certainly, I'm
definitely not saying that a degree is worth more than actual experience.  I
suspect a lot of high-school drop outs code better than some who hold CS
degrees.  I'm merely interested in finding out of Microsoft certification
has meant anything for you in terms of income, or is it just excellent
Microsoft marketing and hype?

Thanks.



Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Does Microsoft Certification mean $$$?

Quote:

> I'm not currently certified in anything by Microsoft.  I'm starting to see
> more and more people with certification.

> I'd like to hear from anyone who can tell me if Certification holds greater
> meaning in terms of employment, than say... a CS or MIS degree?  I suspect
> it might, since certification might convey actual knowledge in a given area,
> whereas a degree means I sat through 3+ years of social studies, art
> history, etc, and a semester of something remotely useful (well...at least
> that was my own experience).

> Please don't take me wrong, I'm not knocking a degree.  And certainly, I'm
> definitely not saying that a degree is worth more than actual experience.  I
> suspect a lot of high-school drop outs code better than some who hold CS
> degrees.  I'm merely interested in finding out of Microsoft certification
> has meant anything for you in terms of income, or is it just excellent
> Microsoft marketing and hype?

Certifications are nice (see sig below :-) but they do not compare to
a degree, IMNSHO.  I am degreed and teacher certified (Secondary
(7th-12th grade) Teaching - Psychology and Computer Science) as well
as networking certified.  Show me a school where they give you a
degree for four years of "sitting through" your classes... last time I
checked (my experience - almost 200 credit hours) you had to *work*
and damn hard to get through almost all courses.  What was the school
you went to that was so easy?  I went to University of Texas (Dallas)
and I can tell you that no one just walks through that school.  If all
you want to do is qualify for a dead-end job (being that without a
degree there is a limit on the jobs you'll be offered) then
certifications-only and/or job experience can see you through to a
good paycheck.  But woe unto you if you ever need to change
jobs/careers, or deceide you'd like to do something other than be a
coder.  You'll be at a disadvantage to say the least.  Ask anyone over
40 who never got a degree and wants to do other things now.

My 2 cents...

--
24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case... coincidence? I think not.

Paul Doherty CNA/CNE/MCP+I/MCSE
http://www.dfw.net/~pdoherty
Home of PC DiskMaster File/Dir Manager for Win95/98/NT4



Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Does Microsoft Certification mean $$$?

I am over forty and spent alot of years in the military and  raising a
family
before finding that computers were my true calling.  I did not benefit from
a degree and, yes, there have been many times that I wished I had.  I
actually
took quite a few courses while in the Air Force, but in the things I was
interested
in; C, Pascal, Assembly,etc.  No 'ology's.  I learned OO design, db design
and
administration, C/C++/Unix by myself.  It may have actually been harder than
college
but I have worked as a Senior Software Engineer for several large firms and
am
currently contracting in that capacity for another.

Quote:
>Certifications are nice (see sig below :-) but they do not compare to
>a degree, IMNSHO.  I am degreed and teacher certified (Secondary
>(7th-12th grade) Teaching - Psychology and Computer Science) as well
>as networking certified.  Show me a school where they give you a
>degree for four years of "sitting through" your classes... last time I
>checked (my experience - almost 200 credit hours) you had to *work*
>and damn hard to get through almost all courses.  What was the school
>you went to that was so easy?  I went to University of Texas (Dallas)
>and I can tell you that no one just walks through that school.

There are alot of 'professionals' I've met through the years that obviously
went to college to avoid getting on with life.  In general, a college degree
doesn't guarantee success; natural smarts, motivation and love for your
vocation
do.  I've worked with more that one CS PHD who were obviously 'not
cut out for their chosen profession'.

Quote:
>If all you want to do is qualify for a dead-end job (being that without a
>degree there is a limit on the jobs you'll be offered) then
>certifications-only and/or job experience can see you through to a
>good paycheck.  But woe unto you if you ever need to change
>jobs/careers, or deceide you'd like to do something other than be a
>coder.  You'll be at a disadvantage to say the least.  Ask anyone over
>40 who never got a degree and wants to do other things now.

Not even close.  I don't know where you live but here in the metro Wash DC
area
the jobs and contracts are plentiful.  I haven't even been asked about
education
for about 3 years; and that was for positions of tech lead for software
development
shops.

Quote:
>My 2 cents...

I will _almost_ force my kids to go to college but I'm aware that if they
choose a different
route, they can do OK.  It's true that a college degree opens more doors at
first, but any
more it's what you know, can demonstrate and show some initiative.  To say
that the
degree fixes it all is a bit too much puffery.  And even a degree won't keep
a moron from
getting fired.

my 2 cents

Quote:
>--
>24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case... coincidence? I think not.

>Paul Doherty CNA/CNE/MCP+I/MCSE
>http://www.dfw.net/~pdoherty
>Home of PC DiskMaster File/Dir Manager for Win95/98/NT4



Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Does Microsoft Certification mean $$$?

I've seen outstanding programmers with and without degrees, as well as, bad!
There are plenty of open doors out there for both; a degree, certification, or
both "tends" to open more doors, but once you get a foot in the rest is up to
the individual regardless.

A degree is not for everyone and large numbers of them are doing very, very
well.  I'm proud of mine, I worked 7 am - 5 pm in the Air Force and went to
school 5:30 pm - 11 pm every night for 3 years.  I want my kids to go to college
as well, but I can't force them.

The bottom line is "how good a programmer are you?"  If given a choice I want a
good programmer, I'll give him incentives to go to school if he hasn't already
and if he has I'll offer incentives to become certified or take the next
collegiate step!

Jeff

Quote:

> I am over forty and spent alot of years in the military and  raising a
> family
> before finding that computers were my true calling.  I did not benefit from
> a degree and, yes, there have been many times that I wished I had.  I
> actually
> took quite a few courses while in the Air Force, but in the things I was
> interested
> in; C, Pascal, Assembly,etc.  No 'ology's.  I learned OO design, db design
> and
> administration, C/C++/Unix by myself.  It may have actually been harder than
> college
> but I have worked as a Senior Software Engineer for several large firms and
> am
> currently contracting in that capacity for another.

> >Certifications are nice (see sig below :-) but they do not compare to
> >a degree, IMNSHO.  I am degreed and teacher certified (Secondary
> >(7th-12th grade) Teaching - Psychology and Computer Science) as well
> >as networking certified.  Show me a school where they give you a
> >degree for four years of "sitting through" your classes... last time I
> >checked (my experience - almost 200 credit hours) you had to *work*
> >and damn hard to get through almost all courses.  What was the school
> >you went to that was so easy?  I went to University of Texas (Dallas)
> >and I can tell you that no one just walks through that school.

> There are alot of 'professionals' I've met through the years that obviously
> went to college to avoid getting on with life.  In general, a college degree
> doesn't guarantee success; natural smarts, motivation and love for your
> vocation
> do.  I've worked with more that one CS PHD who were obviously 'not
> cut out for their chosen profession'.

> >If all you want to do is qualify for a dead-end job (being that without a
> >degree there is a limit on the jobs you'll be offered) then
> >certifications-only and/or job experience can see you through to a
> >good paycheck.  But woe unto you if you ever need to change
> >jobs/careers, or deceide you'd like to do something other than be a
> >coder.  You'll be at a disadvantage to say the least.  Ask anyone over
> >40 who never got a degree and wants to do other things now.

> Not even close.  I don't know where you live but here in the metro Wash DC
> area
> the jobs and contracts are plentiful.  I haven't even been asked about
> education
> for about 3 years; and that was for positions of tech lead for software
> development
> shops.

> >My 2 cents...

> I will _almost_ force my kids to go to college but I'm aware that if they
> choose a different
> route, they can do OK.  It's true that a college degree opens more doors at
> first, but any
> more it's what you know, can demonstrate and show some initiative.  To say
> that the
> degree fixes it all is a bit too much puffery.  And even a degree won't keep
> a moron from
> getting fired.

> my 2 cents
> >--
> >24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case... coincidence? I think not.

> >Paul Doherty CNA/CNE/MCP+I/MCSE
> >http://www.dfw.net/~pdoherty
> >Home of PC DiskMaster File/Dir Manager for Win95/98/NT4



Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 4 post ] 

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