Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM 
Author Message
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM

Quote:

> Can someone please help me on expert system
> I am doing my theses about, building an expert system, using Visual Basic.
> The problem is I am not a computer science student, I am an Industrial
> engineer student.
> I  have no background in programming although have been catching up with
> both VB and Expert system.

VB is not the usual first choice for an expert system. Prolog or Lisp
might be. That said, the choice of language does not come first. First
you want to decide what your expert system would do. Then you think
a little about how to do it. That'll give you a better idea of how to
choose a language. For example, if your problem requires backward
chaining algorithm, you' naturally prefer Prolog.

The first issue is: what does your Expert System do? What problem
can it solve, what situations do you see it being used in? What is
its "Domain"?

--
MikeC

Please reply to the group.



Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM

Can someone please help me on expert system
I am doing my theses about, building an expert system, using Visual Basic.
The problem is I am not a computer science student, I am an Industrial
engineer student.
I  have no background in programming although have been catching up with
both VB and Expert system.

My question is:

1. In building expert system (ES), I have found 2 books that actually
explains how to build it using basic (not VB). Problem is both are different
in method.
The other books dont seem to be clear enough on how to actually program the
ES.

-- one method is to create a matrix/table to assign values (of 1 or 0)to the
solution.
with solution being the coloumns and problems being the rows.
I created an excel spreadsheet for the rule, and get the user input values
for each parameters (row).
then ASSUMES that this is solution (coloumn) x.

Then another table will calculate using a formula D=D+R*V........(is this
familiar/correct formula to be used?)

when the result is + then the ASSUMPTION is correct and that particular
coloumn is the answer, if  -ve then ASSUME another coloumn (do-loop)
Problem is,  this method doesn't work, I kept getting the wrong answer.

2.  the other book creates somekind of database and compares the input to
database. Which is to me somewhat similiar to search method. (if x = x then
ok)
Although this method seems OK but then the system is merely comparing and
hence not quite an ES?
(the title of the book is something to do with ES though)

I am sorry for such long question,
any help will be greatly appreciated (GREATLY appreciated)
thank you in advance, at least for reading the whole question.



Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM
1/ it doesn't matter in which languaxe you will programm your ES

2/ you should know, which inferencial mechanism you want to use
(pseudoprobable, logical, standard, neural?)

3/ negative values cannot influence the final decision, unless you
explicitly say they can. i.e. you have to explicitely tell
    -A -> B(w)
where negative answer A leads to goal B with weight w

     A -> B(w)
goal B will be only influenced by positive answers, negative or zero answers
will leave goal B intact.

e.g.
question: Can animal fly?

     A -> B(w)
    animal can fly -> bird (3)

if the animal cannot fly you cannot say, it's not a bird unless you specify
    -A -> B(w)
    animal cannot fly -> bird(-3)

hth.
j.


Quote:

>Can someone please help me on expert system
>I am doing my theses about, building an expert system, using Visual Basic.
>The problem is I am not a computer science student, I am an Industrial
>engineer student.
>I  have no background in programming although have been catching up with
>both VB and Expert system.

>My question is:

>1. In building expert system (ES), I have found 2 books that actually
>explains how to build it using basic (not VB). Problem is both are
different
>in method.
>The other books dont seem to be clear enough on how to actually program the
>ES.

>-- one method is to create a matrix/table to assign values (of 1 or 0)to
the
>solution.
>with solution being the coloumns and problems being the rows.
>I created an excel spreadsheet for the rule, and get the user input values
>for each parameters (row).
>then ASSUMES that this is solution (coloumn) x.

>Then another table will calculate using a formula D=D+R*V........(is this
>familiar/correct formula to be used?)

>when the result is + then the ASSUMPTION is correct and that particular
>coloumn is the answer, if  -ve then ASSUME another coloumn (do-loop)
>Problem is,  this method doesn't work, I kept getting the wrong answer.

>2.  the other book creates somekind of database and compares the input to
>database. Which is to me somewhat similiar to search method. (if x = x then
>ok)
>Although this method seems OK but then the system is merely comparing and
>hence not quite an ES?
>(the title of the book is something to do with ES though)

>I am sorry for such long question,
>any help will be greatly appreciated (GREATLY appreciated)
>thank you in advance, at least for reading the whole question.



Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM
Hi Mike,
Thank's very much for replying,

Using VB is somewhat a "constraint" for me.

As for the Expert system, I need to do it for a case study of an unreliable
machines which requires the operator to be experienced. I will need to
"capture" his decision, such as what to do when what problems/parameter
occurs.

So far, I am aware of rule induction method, the if-then method and the one
I'm using, which is sort of matrix and value assigning system. (I may be
talking rubbish here but I was browsing through many books, so sorry for the
lack of understanding)

How would you approach this problem? and what book(s) did you use when
learning E.S?
(I found that most books about this subject is somewhat incomplete....and
relies heavily on prolog/natural languages--which is probably good, but not
for me)

Thank's again Mike.

Quote:
> VB is not the usual first choice for an expert system. Prolog or Lisp
> might be. That said, the choice of language does not come first. First
> you want to decide what your expert system would do. Then you think
> a little about how to do it. That'll give you a better idea of how to
> choose a language. For example, if your problem requires backward
> chaining algorithm, you' naturally prefer Prolog.

> The first issue is: what does your Expert System do? What problem
> can it solve, what situations do you see it being used in? What is
> its "Domain"?

> --
> MikeC

> Please reply to the group.



Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM

Quote:


> > you want to decide what your expert system would do. Then you think
> > a little about how to do it. That'll give you a better idea of how to
> > choose a language. For example, if your problem requires backward
> > chaining algorithm, you' naturally prefer Prolog.

> > The first issue is: what does your Expert System do? What problem
> > can it solve, what situations do you see it being used in? What is
> > its "Domain"?

> Using VB is somewhat a "constraint" for me.

> As for the Expert system, I need to do it for a case study of an unreliable
> machines which requires the operator to be experienced. I will need to
> "capture" his decision, such as what to do when what problems/parameter
> occurs.

Sounds like it is very deterministic.

Quote:
> How would you approach this problem? and what book(s) did you use when
> learning E.S?

It was too long ago for me to remember. Considering that you have a
thesis to submit and no exam to pass, I recommend passing on the
theory (Otherwise, try books by Marvin Minsky for a start.) From
the little you described, the machine behaviour and responses can
be captured in great detail. Trivial and extreme conditions
can be handled as

1. Special cases where the ES throws up its hands, displays a message
   and beeps a lot. This is first pass.

2. Once the main ES is ready, you can attack these special cases again.

For the heart of the system which deals with the normal range of
inputs and outputs (data and control) of the machine, you might
be able to use decision tree structure. What you described sounds like
an alternate representation that's more search-based. It also lends
itself to some amount of fuzzy matching.

Using VB for this shouldn't be difficult.

It is too early to think in terms of data structures, in any language. It
is only after you get a thorough understanding (and appreciation) of the
nature of data you need to represent that the best DS to do it in can be
decided. You can always seek advice here about appropriate DS once you
understand your data and can explain it here.

Good luck.

--
MikeC

Please reply to the group.



Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM
Hi Josef,
Thank's for replying,

Quote:
> 2/ you should know, which inferencial mechanism you want to use
> (pseudoprobable, logical, standard, neural?)

I don't quite follow this, by the examples you gave above, you mean it's the
method I'm using?
If it is, I need to use Expert system using VB. Both is somewhat a
constraint for me....

Quote:
> 3/ negative values cannot influence the final decision, unless you
> explicitly say they can. i.e. you have to explicitely tell
>     -A -> B(w)
> where negative answer A leads to goal B with weight w

>      A -> B(w)
> goal B will be only influenced by positive answers, negative or zero
answers
> will leave goal B intact.

> e.g.
> question: Can animal fly?

>      A -> B(w)
>     animal can fly -> bird (3)

> if the animal cannot fly you cannot say, it's not a bird unless you
specify
>     -A -> B(w)
>     animal cannot fly -> bird(-3)

This is actually somewhat similiar to the method I'm using, except I assig
the values in a table.
Anyway, using the method you specify above, how does the expert system
learn/correct itself in case the it gave the wrong answer?

Thank's again for replying



Tue, 17 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Please, need help with EXPERT SYSTEM
Okay,
Thank's very much for your help

I'll try looking up the books you specified

Quote:
> It was too long ago for me to remember. Considering that you have a
> thesis to submit and no exam to pass, I recommend passing on the
> theory (Otherwise, try books by Marvin Minsky for a start.) From
> the little you described, the machine behaviour and responses can
> be captured in great detail. Trivial and extreme conditions
> can be handled as

> 1. Special cases where the ES throws up its hands, displays a message
>    and beeps a lot. This is first pass.

> 2. Once the main ES is ready, you can attack these special cases again.



Tue, 17 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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