sales staff 
Author Message
 sales staff

In my opinion the biggest change powerbasic needs is a proper sales staff
who don't intentionally antagonize and drive away their would-be customers.
This is a post I received from Powerbasic sales after I asked some questions
about a new version.  I thought it was maybe a joke but he was quite
serious.
Quote:
>>You are quite arrogant and obnoxious.  I'm removing you from our eligible
>>customer list.
>>Warmest Regards,
>>Tim



Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:12:35 GMT  
 sales staff
I guess Tim don't need a job, and PB don't need no sales.

PB has "lurkers" on this board am I'm sure someone will get it to the right
people.

MCM


Quote:
> In my opinion the biggest change PowerBasic needs is a proper sales staff
> who don't intentionally antagonize and drive away their would-be
customers.
> This is a post I received from Powerbasic sales after I asked some
questions
> about a new version.  I thought it was maybe a joke but he was quite
> serious.

> >>You are quite arrogant and obnoxious.  I'm removing you from our
eligible
> >>customer list.

> >>Warmest Regards,

> >>Tim



Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:22:35 GMT  
 sales staff
That's quite an interesting message, Dan, even if it may be incomplete.  So let
me explain the situation to you.

Many folks believe that "The customer is always right".  No matter what.  Well,
we have a slightly different outlook on the matter.  We value our customers as
though they're our friends, because they are our friends.  We go to great
lengths to help our customers, to give them the best tools we can possibly make,
and to listen to their wishes for the future.  But we expect something in
return.  We expect that our customers treat PowerBASIC employees politely, and
with normal business respect.  Frankly, a few dollars in revenue is not so
important that we will ever require an employee to accept abuse just to keep a
customer "happy".

Among many other things, you told Tim that you do not like our current
products.  You told Tim that you do not believe our products are worth the price
we charge.  You told Tim that you believe our products are defective.  You even
insisted that you had a right to learn specific details about our future,
unannounced products.  Now, of course, you are entitled to hold any opinion of
us you choose.  And obviously, you are entitled to withhold a purchase of our
products.  But you surely must understand that we have the same rights?  I will
never require that any PowerBASIC employee listen to inappropriate,
argumentative, or abusive dialog.  It's not in their job description.  A few
dollars isn't that important.

You have the right to withhold a purchase from us.  But we also have the right
to withhold acceptance of an order.  Occasionally, we choose that option when it
becomes clear that a further association would be unpleasant, unprofitable, or
just plain unattractive.  You've never purchased from us before, nor do you plan
to do so now.  So what's the problem?  I guess I could speculate that you posted
this message just to try to hurt our perception to the public at large.  That
may or may not be true, but it's the only explanation I could conjure up on
short notice.

I think it's important that folks understand the position of PowerBASIC, but
please be advised that I won't engage in any form of debate over this issue.  I
just want you to understand our perspective.  Thanks to all for allowing me this
minor intrusion.

Sincerely,

Bob Zale, President
PowerBASIC Inc.

Quote:

> In my opinion the biggest change PowerBasic needs is a proper sales staff
> who don't intentionally antagonize and drive away their would-be customers.
> This is a post I received from Powerbasic sales after I asked some questions
> about a new version.  I thought it was maybe a joke but he was quite
> serious.

> >>You are quite arrogant and obnoxious.  I'm removing you from our eligible
> >>customer list.

> >>Warmest Regards,

> >>Tim



Wed, 14 Jan 2004 01:11:06 GMT  
 sales staff


Quote:
>That's quite an interesting message, Dan, even if it may be incomplete.  So let
>me explain the situation to you.

>Many folks believe that "The customer is always right".  No matter what.  Well,
>we have a slightly different outlook on the matter.  We value our customers as
>though they're our friends, because they are our friends.  We go to great
>lengths to help our customers, to give them the best tools we can possibly make,
>and to listen to their wishes for the future.  But we expect something in
>return.  We expect that our customers treat PowerBASIC employees politely, and
>with normal business respect.  Frankly, a few dollars in revenue is not so
>important that we will ever require an employee to accept abuse just to keep a
>customer "happy".

>Among many other things, you told Tim that you do not like our current
>products.  You told Tim that you do not believe our products are worth the price
>we charge.  You told Tim that you believe our products are defective.  You even
>insisted that you had a right to learn specific details about our future,
>unannounced products.  Now, of course, you are entitled to hold any opinion of
>us you choose.  And obviously, you are entitled to withhold a purchase of our
>products.  But you surely must understand that we have the same rights?  I will
>never require that any PowerBASIC employee listen to inappropriate,
>argumentative, or abusive dialog.  It's not in their job description.  A few
>dollars isn't that important.

>You have the right to withhold a purchase from us.  But we also have the right
>to withhold acceptance of an order.  Occasionally, we choose that option when it
>becomes clear that a further association would be unpleasant, unprofitable, or
>just plain unattractive.  You've never purchased from us before, nor do you plan
>to do so now.  So what's the problem?  I guess I could speculate that you posted
>this message just to try to hurt our perception to the public at large.  That
>may or may not be true, but it's the only explanation I could conjure up on
>short notice.

>I think it's important that folks understand the position of PowerBASIC, but
>please be advised that I won't engage in any form of debate over this issue.  I
>just want you to understand our perspective.  Thanks to all for allowing me this
>minor intrusion.

>Sincerely,

>Bob Zale, President
>PowerBASIC Inc.

Bob,

bravo. You obviously know the Three Rules of Small Business:

1. Have fun.

2. Make money.

3. Don't deal with people you don't like.

John



Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:59:03 GMT  
 sales staff
I know there's no debate here, but I was struck by...


Quote:
> Among many other things, you told Tim that you do not like our current
> products.....
> ...You've never purchased from us before....

If one never purchased, how can one know enough to not like?

MCM



Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:15:50 GMT  
 sales staff
Don't sweat it, Bob.  There's always a weenie-whiner in every crowd.
Most of us know that PowerBasic is one of very few points of light in
the shadows that sweep down from Mordor, er, Redmond, as the Dark Lord
draws ever closer to sealing our doom.

John M.



Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:56:06 GMT  
 sales staff


Quote:
> I know there's no debate here, but I was struck by...



> > Among many other things, you told Tim that you do not like our current
> > products.....
> > ...You've never purchased from us before....

> If one never purchased, how can one know enough to not like?

It is possible to buy PowerBASIC products through resellers.

Not all resellers register products for their customers, so if a customer
buys a PowerBASIC product from a reseller and doesn't register it
themselves, PowerBASIC has no record of the transaction.

--Dave



Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:21:49 GMT  
 sales staff

Quote:



>> I know there's no debate here, but I was struck by...



>> > Among many other things, you told Tim that you do not like our current
>> > products.....
>> > ...You've never purchased from us before....

>> If one never purchased, how can one know enough to not like?

>It is possible to buy PowerBASIC products through resellers.

>Not all resellers register products for their customers, so if a customer
>buys a PowerBASIC product from a reseller and doesn't register it
>themselves, PowerBASIC has no record of the transaction.

>--Dave

And even when you do register your product at PowerBASIC's
website, it can take weeks for this info to get transferred to
the computer where PowerBASIC stores its database. So even if
you have registered, "Sales" may not know it.  This information
was volunteered to me by a PowerBASIC staffer.

<musing> Are there any parallels between PowerBASIC Inc and
Digital Research?  Remember CP/M, Concurrent CP/M, CBASIC ...
and Gary Kildall? </musing>

--
cheers
Jonathan Berry
http://www.islandnet.com/~jberry/      to know more than you want



Mon, 19 Jan 2004 04:41:58 GMT  
 sales staff

Quote:
> And even when you do register your product at PowerBASIC's
> website, it can take weeks for this info to get transferred to
> the computer where PowerBASIC stores its database. So even if
> you have registered, "Sales" may not know it.  This information
> was volunteered to me by a PowerBASIC staffer.

Interesting...  It wasn't that way when I worked there.

--Dave



Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:01:18 GMT  
 sales staff
For the record,  at no point did I become abusive,  and have stuck to the
issues concerning their product.  At no time did I engage in personal
insults.  Unfortunately the same can not be said for personnel at
PowerBasic.

If anyone disputes this,  I can provide emails of the entire dialog,
including with Bob Zale,  a man I used to respect.

Dan



Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:28:26 GMT  
 sales staff
I had a similar experience.

There is still a lot to respect Bob Zale for, but perhaps some

After two years, it would be nice to have a bugfix release of
PB/CC 2, for example.

PB is in many ways (but not all ways) better than Microsoft's
VB offerings.  Years ago, Digital Research had better operating
systems (e.g. Concurrent DOS) and better BASIC programming
languages (CBASIC / CB86) than anything Microsoft would have
for years.  The genius behind some of that, Gary Kildall (the
originator of CP/M) didn't man the sales lines to tick off
potential customers. The company hired people to do that.  But
didn't Kildall take off for a year or two to go parasailing or
skydiving or something?  And by the time he got back, the tide
could not be stemmed.

Another poster pointed out, it is Bob Zale's right to run
his small business whatever way he wants (and the poster
praised him for his attitude).  And I agree, not with the
attitude, but with his right to have it.  


Quote:

>For the record,  at no point did I become abusive,  and have stuck to the
>issues concerning their product.  At no time did I engage in personal
>insults.  Unfortunately the same can not be said for personnel at
>PowerBasic.

>If anyone disputes this, I can provide emails of the entire dialog,
>including with Bob Zale, a man I used to respect.

>Dan

--
cheers
Jonathan Berry
http://www.islandnet.com/~jberry/      to know more than you want


Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:35:20 GMT  
 sales staff
Thanks Jonathan,

I would agree with your stance,  but I don't believe anyone in their own
business has the luxury of dictating who buys their products.  A company who
thinks that way obviously is advertising that they make enough money not to
care, and if that is the case they can lower their prices to their regular
customers.

Cheers,

Dan



Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:17:37 GMT  
 sales staff
I've never heard of this practice either, and I've worked for
PowerBASIC since before Dave left!

Quote:


>> And even when you do register your product at PowerBASIC's
>> website, it can take weeks for this info to get transferred to
>> the computer where PowerBASIC stores its database. So even if
>> you have registered, "Sales" may not know it.  This information
>> was volunteered to me by a PowerBASIC staffer.

>Interesting...  It wasn't that way when I worked there.
>--Dave

Lance
PowerBASIC Support

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316 Mid Valley Center | 831-659-8000 Voice | http://www.powerbasic.com



Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:40:02 GMT  
 sales staff

I would have to argue the second point.  Many MANY companies discourage
the purchase of their products to groups or types of potential customers,
one way or another.  I'm not trying to insult anyone, but here's just a
few examples;

I discourage the use of my own products (assorted software) by
non-computer literates by way of my style of documentation. Why? Support
issues can very quickly bury you if you sell to yahoos, and some of my
software can cause damage if misused.

The manufacturing company that I work for discourages the use of their
products by non-professionals by declining to sell retail (among other
methods).  Why? Use of their products by non-professionals could cause
serious injury.

Want another example?  Try to purchase "adhesive removal pads" from a
medical supply house.  (Nothing tricky or controlled to them, it's just a
good way to remove tape residue from equipment). It'll take you quite a
while and quite a bit of effort.  Why?  I have no idea.

I can think of other examples, but you probably see my point by now.  If,
and I stress IF, Powerbasic actualy discourages some potential customers
(which I think unlikely, based on my own experiences with them), they
aren't alone or even unusual.

Mike-



Quote:
>Thanks Jonathan,
>I would agree with your stance,  but I don't believe anyone in their own
>business has the luxury of dictating who buys their products.  A company
>who thinks that way obviously is advertising that they make enough money
>not to care, and if that is the case they can lower their prices to their
>regular customers.
>Cheers,
>Dan

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Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:12:49 GMT  
 sales staff
Mike,

I'm sure there are companies who discourage selling to certain groups,  but
in all your examples there is a respectful and professional way of handling
it,  which doesn't include personally insulting the group they are trying to
avoid selling to.

Dan



Thu, 22 Jan 2004 00:43:01 GMT  
 
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