Info wanted on assembler for MPC601 
Author Message
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

I am looking for any information on an assembler for the Motorola
PowerPC 601 (MPC601) chip. If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate
it. Thanks in advance :)

Ben



Fri, 11 Oct 1996 05:40:57 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601


Quote:

>I am looking for any information on an assembler for the Motorola
>PowerPC 601 (MPC601) chip. If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate
>it. Thanks in advance :)

>Ben

comp.sys.powerpc group might be a good possibility for help.


Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:34:58 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601
Darryl Plank:
.  'Comp.lang.asm370' is a newsgroup concerning the IBM 370 machine
.  language, and assemblers of this machine language, which was (and
.  is still, to some extent) used on IBM mainframe computers.

Which is not to say that you couldn't have a 370 assembler with the
MPC601 as a target platform.  [Isn't IBM porting MVS to that thing?]

[Don't mind me, I'm just mumbling...]

Raul D. Miller



Sun, 13 Oct 1996 08:19:15 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

:Darryl Plank:
:..  'Comp.lang.asm370' is a newsgroup concerning the IBM 370 machine
:..  language, and assemblers of this machine language, which was (and
:..  is still, to some extent) used on IBM mainframe computers.
:
:Which is not to say that you couldn't have a 370 assembler with the
:MPC601 as a target platform.  [Isn't IBM porting MVS to that thing?]
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Impossible.  IBM would add POSIX compliance to MVS maybe.  How many
years did it take IBM to upgrade MVS to 31-bit addressing?  MVS is
the largest software object in the Universe.  It's not going anywhere
except to newer models of S370 architecture.

---
Coming soon to a theater near you:  LE NOTTE {*filter*}HE DEI MORTI VIVENTI
"Creepy, crawlin, lizard eatin' black cat!" fnord "I'm gwyna blind ya!"
"Art is _never_ morally objectionable!"  fnord "University of Florida!"



Mon, 14 Oct 1996 02:03:53 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:

> I am looking for any information on an assembler for the Motorola
> PowerPC 601 (MPC601) chip. If anyone can help, I'd greatly appreciate
> it. Thanks in advance :)

> Ben

'Comp.lang.asm370' is a newsgroup concerning the IBM 370 machine language,
and assemblers of this machine language, which was (and is still, to some
extent) used on IBM mainframe computers.

I suggest you post your question in the newsgroup 'comp.sys.powerpc'.



Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:16:37 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:

>Impossible.  IBM would add POSIX compliance to MVS maybe.  How many
>years did it take IBM to upgrade MVS to 31-bit addressing?  MVS is
>the largest software object in the Universe.  It's not going anywhere
>except to newer models of S370 architecture.

I can't believe that IBM _don't_ have a project porting MVS to
POWER, even if it's only a couple of guys at Yorktown Heights.
Changing to 31-bit addressing involved changes to data structures
and APIs (a _lot_ of SVCs stuck things in the top byte), which is
a lot more difficult than changing instruction set, the point
being that code is private, control blocks are shared.  If you
started off with a 370 simulator you could migrate piece by piece
to native code...

Are you sure your mainframe isn't already an RS/6000 and all
those fancy assists are implemented as POWER code? :-)



Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:13:05 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601


Regarding the possibilty of porting MVS to the Power PC chip,
I said that it was

::Impossible.  IBM would add POSIX compliance to MVS maybe.  How many
::years did it take IBM to upgrade MVS to 31-bit addressing?  MVS is
::the largest software object in the Universe.  It's not going anywhere
::except to newer models of S370 architecture.

:I can't believe that IBM _don't_ have a project porting MVS to
:POWER, even if it's only a couple of guys at Yorktown Heights.

Wasn't that how VM came into being?  TSS was a miserable failure
but a couple of guys in Cambridge (U.S.A.) dreamed up CMS and
convinced IBM to add some virtual addressing hardware to a
360?  Or did they already have a 360+DAT machine to play with?
Well anyway, IBM does seem to let their researchers do some
weird stuff...

Wasn't the original PC/370 the product of a couple of guys off
by themselves?

:Changing to 31-bit addressing involved changes to data structures
:and APIs (a _lot_ of SVCs stuck things in the top byte), which is
:a lot more difficult than changing instruction set, the point
:being that code is private, control blocks are shared.  If you
:started off with a 370 simulator you could migrate piece by piece
:to native code...

Maybe someone could write an emulator environment so that an MVS
load module could execute under AIX...  I know that CICS has
been "ported" to AIX, but what about VSAM, RACF, ISPF, VTAM,
etc?

My point is that it would _not_ be MVS.  It would be some adaptations
of MVS _utilities_ that run under a different OS.

:Are you sure your mainframe isn't already an RS/6000 and all
:those fancy assists are implemented as POWER code? :-)

We're checking the invoice right now. :-)

---
Coming soon to a theater near you:  LE NOTTE {*filter*}HE DEI MORTI VIVENTI
"Creepy, crawlin, lizard eatin' black cat!" fnord "I'm gwyna blind ya!"
"Art is _never_ morally objectionable!"  fnord "University of Florida!"



Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:23:17 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601
Simon Wagstaff:
.  Maybe someone could write an emulator environment so that an MVS
.  load module could execute under AIX...  I know that CICS has been
.  "ported" to AIX, but what about VSAM, RACF, ISPF, VTAM, etc?
.
.  My point is that it would _not_ be MVS.  It would be some adaptations
.  of MVS _utilities_ that run under a different OS.

Actually, I thought I was talking about something more along the line
of VM/MVS.  Not that anybody actually uses VM, of course...

Raul D. Miller



Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:38:11 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

:Simon Wagstaff:
:..  Maybe someone could write an emulator environment so that an MVS
:..  load module could execute under AIX...  I know that CICS has been
:..  "ported" to AIX, but what about VSAM, RACF, ISPF, VTAM, etc?
:..
:..  My point is that it would _not_ be MVS.  It would be some adaptations
:..  of MVS _utilities_ that run under a different OS.
:
:Actually, I thought I was talking about something more along the line
:of VM/MVS.  Not that anybody actually uses VM, of course...

Ok, they could do CMS.  People do use it.  The University of Florida
has VM/CMS running on one CPU of a three-CPU 3900-831 for E-mail,
3270 passthru to VTAM, and AIX in one virtual machine.  The Power PC
would only be able to support the CMS environment, but that would be
ok for program development and such.  CMS doesn't have the robust
batch system that MVS does, so that's why so few people use it for
production jobs.  Maybe CMS batch has improved since I last used
it five or six years ago.

The County School Board uses CMS as part of their DOS/VSE system.
I don't know what for though.  Program development?  Hello...
Are there any DOS programmers out there?  (Oh Noooooo.... Not
_that_ kind of DOS.  The mainframe DOS.)

Why doesn't IBM just pull the plug on DOS?  Or has it already done
so?  

FYI, DOS is an operating system so primative by today's
standards, you just would not believe it.  I don't think
files have names under DOS.  You tell DOS the volume/cylinder/track
of where to find you file.  Can you believe it?

---
Coming soon to a theater near you:  LE NOTTE {*filter*}HE DEI MORTI VIVENTI
"Creepy, crawlin, lizard eatin' black cat!" fnord "I'm gwyna blind ya!"
"Art is _never_ morally objectionable!"  fnord "University of Florida!"



Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:03:16 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601
Quote:

> Ok, they could do CMS.  People do use it.  The University of Florida
> has VM/CMS running on one CPU of a three-CPU 3900-831 for E-mail,

                                               ^^^^^^^^
  OK - I'll bite.  What is a 3900-831?  Is this some new AMDAHL
  or Hitachi that I haven't heard of?
--

Northern Trust Co.  Chicago, IL |  DoD #97779  88 FLHTC


Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:07:49 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:
> Darryl Plank:
> .  'Comp.lang.asm370' is a newsgroup concerning the IBM 370 machine
> .  language, and assemblers of this machine language, which was (and
> .  is still, to some extent) used on IBM mainframe computers.

> Which is not to say that you couldn't have a 370 assembler with the
> MPC601 as a target platform.  [Isn't IBM porting MVS to that thing?]

> [Don't mind me, I'm just mumbling...]

> Raul D. Miller


  Yes, but the original question was for a MPC601 assembler, and not for a
370 assembler with the MPC601 as a target platform  ... I've noticed that
the 'comp.lang.asm370' group seems to get alot of off-the-topic messages,
which is why I made my original post - it seems that there are alot of
people out there in Internet land who don't know the purpose of this
newsgroup.
  Concerning your remarks, I've heard there's a company in the U.S. who
have created a 370 assembler for Intel 386 PCs, and apparently they have
even managed to get the IBM operating systems VM and VSE to run on it!
  I haven't heard that IBM is planning to port MVS to the PowerPC
platform, but who knows? It's certainly wouldn't be technically
impossible. Does anyone else know about this?


Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:01:44 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601
: The County School Board uses CMS as part of their DOS/VSE system.
: I don't know what for though.  Program development?  Hello...
:
... this probably means that they're running VSE under VM, a common
practice.  CMS doesn't run under VSE.

: FYI, DOS is an operating system so primative by today's
: standards, you just would not believe it.  I don't think
: files have names under DOS.  You tell DOS the volume/cylinder/track
: of where to find you file.  Can you believe it?
:
No, they have names.  In fact, VSE uses a VTOC/DSCB structure mostly
compatible with MVS.  You can access an existing file by name; you
only have to supply cyl/track for a new file.  VSE won't make such
decisions for you.  Catatonic.

As an alternative, under VSE you can use VSAM data sets; better support --
VSAM handles the physical allocation.

(but this is just what people tell me.  Except for VTOC compatibility --
I have read VSE data sets on a shared volume with MVS programs.)

-- gil



Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:30:04 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:
>Impossible.  IBM would add POSIX compliance to MVS maybe.  How many
>years did it take IBM to upgrade MVS to 31-bit addressing?  MVS is
>the largest software object in the Universe.  It's not going anywhere
>except to newer models of S370 architecture.

I'll bite, how many years did it take? I've been working under MVS/XA for
about 10 years and MVS/ESA since 1989. VM/XA got installed at our site about
5 years later than MVS/XA and we are now up on VM/ESA.

Besides, wasn't the problem a lot bigger than just upgrading MVS to 31-bit,
since you also had to upgrade all the other software components. Lots of
stuff would chug along quite happily(XA tolerant) as long as you didn't
try to call it from above the line or pass it an entry point address above
the line.

What I really think is going to take a long time is converting DFP to support
physical record sizes of more than 32K. Will it ever happen?

As to what is VM useful for? Well, our local AFP support people say that
PSF/VM can handle AFP printing on network attached printers such as 3812s,
while PSF/MVS can't. We have to spool all of our MVS TSO listings and page
snaps to a VM system to use AFP. Apart from that it really escapes me.
--



Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:26:06 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:

>>Impossible.  IBM would add POSIX compliance to MVS maybe.  How many
>>years did it take IBM to upgrade MVS to 31-bit addressing?  MVS is
>>the largest software object in the Universe.  It's not going anywhere
>>except to newer models of S370 architecture.

>I can't believe that IBM _don't_ have a project porting MVS to
>POWER, even if it's only a couple of guys at Yorktown Heights.
>Changing to 31-bit addressing involved changes to data structures
>and APIs (a _lot_ of SVCs stuck things in the top byte), which is
>a lot more difficult than changing instruction set, the point
>being that code is private, control blocks are shared.  If you
>started off with a 370 simulator you could migrate piece by piece
>to native code...

>Are you sure your mainframe isn't already an RS/6000 and all
>those fancy assists are implemented as POWER code? :-)

 IBM planned to use the PowerPC in the AS/400 system-family. The
 AS/400 instructions will be supported by hardware directly. So the
 PowerPC chip-set will execute AS/400 directly. IBM didn't say that
 they will not support the S/370 S/390 instruction-set in the near
 future.




Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:31:51 GMT  
 Info wanted on assembler for MPC601

Quote:

> IBM planned to use the PowerPC in the AS/400 system-family. The
> AS/400 instructions will be supported by hardware directly. So the
> PowerPC chip-set will execute AS/400 directly. IBM didn't say that
> they will not support the S/370 S/390 instruction-set in the near
> future.

... but it would be unwise to assume anything from AS/400 announcements.
As I understand it (from IBM Systems Journal) the AS/400 is already
two-layer, with an underlying RISC processor executing some more
powerful "macro" instructions which are the ones seen by the programmer.
So it is not at all unexpected that IBM would want to move to POWER as
the underlying RISC.  I expect they have done this with mainframe
channel processors too, which used to be based on the old RT chip
as far as I know.  By contrast, making a RISC-emulated 360 go anywhere
near as fast as the real thing would be a major job of work.


Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:17:07 GMT  
 
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