A way to master tricky situations... 
Author Message
 A way to master tricky situations...

Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a lot of
time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange situations
where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An example
is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited code.

While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've tried
different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found that
this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why these
measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

It should be interesting to know if more people have similar experiences and
even an explanation.

Regards
BosseH



Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:26:38 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...
Hi, Bo,

The situation you describe is generally known as "template bloat". The cure generally is the one you
found. In fact, it's been automated. See http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/MacrosVBA/TemplateBloat.htm
for a link to the Code Cleaner from Payne Computing.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP        Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word

Quote:

> Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a lot of
> time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange situations
> where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An example
> is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited code.

> While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've tried
> different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found that
> this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
> removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why these
> measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> It should be interesting to know if more people have similar experiences and
> even an explanation.

> Regards
> BosseH



Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:56:16 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...
Dear BosseH,
I'm in a similar situation to yourself, and have had the same problem,
writing in word97 (now, once upon a time in Word 2.0!).  I have a reasonably
complex project involving a number of templates, but most code is
concentrated in normal.dot (1350K) and one other template (2970K).  As you
have found, when a template (usually normal.dot, sometimes the other,
refused to save, I would export the code I had been writing, close without
saving, then open again, delete the old code and import the new, saving
immediately. This usually solves the situation, but is a pain in the
proverbial!  Interestingly, it is more often Nomal.dot, the smaller project,
that refuses to save than the larger.
I used the WordCleaner macro from Payne Consulting some weeks ago, thinking
it might solve the problem, but though it reduced the template size a
little, it did not alter the problem with saving new code.  I don't know if
this says that "bloat" is not the problem.  And if bloat was the problem,
why does exporting new code (which can be quite a small macro) and
re-importing it later solve the problem.  The "bloat" is going to be largely
unchanged.
Very frustrating!
I've never had the code freeze during use or in any other situation, but
none of my code changes the templates and this could be why.

Regards,
Brett


Quote:
> Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a lot
of
> time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange
situations
> where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An
example
> is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited
code.

> While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've tried
> different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found that
> this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
> removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why these
> measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> It should be interesting to know if more people have similar experiences
and
> even an explanation.

> Regards
> BosseH



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:38:32 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...
I've just been experimenting. If I delete a macro, import the previously
exported newer version, then save, there is no problem.  I can close and use
the macro without problems.  But if I compile the project after importing
the macro, the disk full error occurs.  I guess that says bloat.
Brett


Quote:
> Dear BosseH,
> I'm in a similar situation to yourself, and have had the same problem,
> writing in word97 (now, once upon a time in Word 2.0!).  I have a
reasonably
> complex project involving a number of templates, but most code is
> concentrated in normal.dot (1350K) and one other template (2970K).  As you
> have found, when a template (usually normal.dot, sometimes the other,
> refused to save, I would export the code I had been writing, close without
> saving, then open again, delete the old code and import the new, saving
> immediately. This usually solves the situation, but is a pain in the
> proverbial!  Interestingly, it is more often Nomal.dot, the smaller
project,
> that refuses to save than the larger.
> I used the WordCleaner macro from Payne Consulting some weeks ago,
thinking
> it might solve the problem, but though it reduced the template size a
> little, it did not alter the problem with saving new code.  I don't know
if
> this says that "bloat" is not the problem.  And if bloat was the problem,
> why does exporting new code (which can be quite a small macro) and
> re-importing it later solve the problem.  The "bloat" is going to be
largely
> unchanged.
> Very frustrating!
> I've never had the code freeze during use or in any other situation, but
> none of my code changes the templates and this could be why.

> Regards,
> Brett



> > Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a
lot
> of
> > time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange
> situations
> > where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An
> example
> > is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited
> code.

> > While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've tried
> > different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found that
> > this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
> > removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why these
> > measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> > It should be interesting to know if more people have similar experiences
> and
> > even an explanation.

> > Regards
> > BosseH



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:52:35 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...
Hi Brett

Thanks for reporting your experiences! Here is a bit more about my
situation.

I'm moving between two different computers while developing my application
in Word2K VBA. An interesting thing is that that the computers have behaved
differently. On my office computer (Win98), where the development started a
couple of years ago, I have not had any problems until recently. On a new
computer at customer site (Win2K Pro), the problems occured almost
immediately when it was brought into use a year ago.

Yesterday I downloaded the Code Cleaner from Payne, but stopped the
installation when my virus scanner (F-Secure) warned me about an unknown
virus. However, your experience indicates that it doesn't cure the problem
anyway.

Maybe we have to live with the inconvenience to cure save problems (and even
other lock-up situations!) by the export-delete-import method ???

By the way, since English is't my native language, I haven't figured out the
meaning of the word "bloat".

Regards
BosseH



Quote:
> I've just been experimenting. If I delete a macro, import the previously
> exported newer version, then save, there is no problem.  I can close and
use
> the macro without problems.  But if I compile the project after importing
> the macro, the disk full error occurs.  I guess that says bloat.
> Brett



> > Dear BosseH,
> > I'm in a similar situation to yourself, and have had the same problem,
> > writing in word97 (now, once upon a time in Word 2.0!).  I have a
> reasonably
> > complex project involving a number of templates, but most code is
> > concentrated in normal.dot (1350K) and one other template (2970K).  As
you
> > have found, when a template (usually normal.dot, sometimes the other,
> > refused to save, I would export the code I had been writing, close witho
ut
> > saving, then open again, delete the old code and import the new, saving
> > immediately. This usually solves the situation, but is a pain in the
> > proverbial!  Interestingly, it is more often Nomal.dot, the smaller
> project,
> > that refuses to save than the larger.
> > I used the WordCleaner macro from Payne Consulting some weeks ago,
> thinking
> > it might solve the problem, but though it reduced the template size a
> > little, it did not alter the problem with saving new code.  I don't know
> if
> > this says that "bloat" is not the problem.  And if bloat was the
problem,
> > why does exporting new code (which can be quite a small macro) and
> > re-importing it later solve the problem.  The "bloat" is going to be
> largely
> > unchanged.
> > Very frustrating!
> > I've never had the code freeze during use or in any other situation, but
> > none of my code changes the templates and this could be why.

> > Regards,
> > Brett



> > > Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a
> lot
> > of
> > > time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange
> > situations
> > > where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An
> > example
> > > is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited
> > code.

> > > While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've
tried
> > > different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found
that
> > > this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
> > > removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why
these
> > > measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> > > It should be interesting to know if more people have similar
experiences
> > and
> > > even an explanation.

> > > Regards
> > > BosseH



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:05:04 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...

Quote:
> By the way, since English is't my native language, I haven't figured out the
> meaning of the word "bloat".

Bo,

The word 'bloat' as used here means the condition of excessive size.  In
ordinary non-computer English, it isn't typically used that way (as a noun).
For example, one might say one feels "bloated" after over-eating, or that
a pompous man has a "bloated" image of himself.  For a template, it means
it's taking up more space than it needs to, because of repeated editing.


-- See the MVP FAQ at http://www.mvps.org/word --------------------------
----------------- "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to group ONLY. Do not attach files. MVPs do not work for Microsoft.

Quote:

> Hi Brett

> Thanks for reporting your experiences! Here is a bit more about my
> situation.

> I'm moving between two different computers while developing my application
> in Word2K VBA. An interesting thing is that that the computers have behaved
> differently. On my office computer (Win98), where the development started a
> couple of years ago, I have not had any problems until recently. On a new
> computer at customer site (Win2K Pro), the problems occured almost
> immediately when it was brought into use a year ago.

> Yesterday I downloaded the Code Cleaner from Payne, but stopped the
> installation when my virus scanner (F-Secure) warned me about an unknown
> virus. However, your experience indicates that it doesn't cure the problem
> anyway.

> Maybe we have to live with the inconvenience to cure save problems (and even
> other lock-up situations!) by the export-delete-import method ???

> By the way, since English is't my native language, I haven't figured out the
> meaning of the word "bloat".

> Regards
> BosseH



> > I've just been experimenting. If I delete a macro, import the previously
> > exported newer version, then save, there is no problem.  I can close and
> use
> > the macro without problems.  But if I compile the project after importing
> > the macro, the disk full error occurs.  I guess that says bloat.
> > Brett



> > > Dear BosseH,
> > > I'm in a similar situation to yourself, and have had the same problem,
> > > writing in word97 (now, once upon a time in Word 2.0!).  I have a
> > reasonably
> > > complex project involving a number of templates, but most code is
> > > concentrated in normal.dot (1350K) and one other template (2970K).  As
> you
> > > have found, when a template (usually normal.dot, sometimes the other,
> > > refused to save, I would export the code I had been writing, close witho
> ut
> > > saving, then open again, delete the old code and import the new, saving
> > > immediately. This usually solves the situation, but is a pain in the
> > > proverbial!  Interestingly, it is more often Nomal.dot, the smaller
> > project,
> > > that refuses to save than the larger.
> > > I used the WordCleaner macro from Payne Consulting some weeks ago,
> > thinking
> > > it might solve the problem, but though it reduced the template size a
> > > little, it did not alter the problem with saving new code.  I don't know
> > if
> > > this says that "bloat" is not the problem.  And if bloat was the
> problem,
> > > why does exporting new code (which can be quite a small macro) and
> > > re-importing it later solve the problem.  The "bloat" is going to be
> > largely
> > > unchanged.
> > > Very frustrating!
> > > I've never had the code freeze during use or in any other situation, but
> > > none of my code changes the templates and this could be why.

> > > Regards,
> > > Brett



> > > > Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent quite a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange
> > > situations
> > > > where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way. An
> > > example
> > > > is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save edited
> > > code.

> > > > While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've
> tried
> > > > different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found
> that
> > > > this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by exporting,
> > > > removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why
> these
> > > > measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> > > > It should be interesting to know if more people have similar
> experiences
> > > and
> > > > even an explanation.

> > > > Regards
> > > > BosseH



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:01:29 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...
Thanks Mark!

/BosseH



Quote:

> > By the way, since English is't my native language, I haven't figured out
the
> > meaning of the word "bloat".

> Bo,

> The word 'bloat' as used here means the condition of excessive size.  In
> ordinary non-computer English, it isn't typically used that way (as a
noun).
> For example, one might say one feels "bloated" after over-eating, or that
> a pompous man has a "bloated" image of himself.  For a template, it means
> it's taking up more space than it needs to, because of repeated editing.


> -- See the MVP FAQ at http://www.mvps.org/word --------------------------
> ----------------- "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Reply to group ONLY. Do not attach files. MVPs do not work for Microsoft.


> > Hi Brett

> > Thanks for reporting your experiences! Here is a bit more about my
> > situation.

> > I'm moving between two different computers while developing my
application
> > in Word2K VBA. An interesting thing is that that the computers have
behaved
> > differently. On my office computer (Win98), where the development
started a
> > couple of years ago, I have not had any problems until recently. On a
new
> > computer at customer site (Win2K Pro), the problems occured almost
> > immediately when it was brought into use a year ago.

> > Yesterday I downloaded the Code Cleaner from Payne, but stopped the
> > installation when my virus scanner (F-Secure) warned me about an unknown
> > virus. However, your experience indicates that it doesn't cure the
problem
> > anyway.

> > Maybe we have to live with the inconvenience to cure save problems (and
even
> > other lock-up situations!) by the export-delete-import method ???

> > By the way, since English is't my native language, I haven't figured out
the
> > meaning of the word "bloat".

> > Regards
> > BosseH



> > > I've just been experimenting. If I delete a macro, import the
previously
> > > exported newer version, then save, there is no problem.  I can close
and
> > use
> > > the macro without problems.  But if I compile the project after
importing
> > > the macro, the disk full error occurs.  I guess that says bloat.
> > > Brett



> > > > Dear BosseH,
> > > > I'm in a similar situation to yourself, and have had the same
problem,
> > > > writing in word97 (now, once upon a time in Word 2.0!).  I have a
> > > reasonably
> > > > complex project involving a number of templates, but most code is
> > > > concentrated in normal.dot (1350K) and one other template (2970K).
As
> > you
> > > > have found, when a template (usually normal.dot, sometimes the
other,
> > > > refused to save, I would export the code I had been writing, close
witho
> > ut
> > > > saving, then open again, delete the old code and import the new,
saving
> > > > immediately. This usually solves the situation, but is a pain in the
> > > > proverbial!  Interestingly, it is more often Nomal.dot, the smaller
> > > project,
> > > > that refuses to save than the larger.
> > > > I used the WordCleaner macro from Payne Consulting some weeks ago,
> > > thinking
> > > > it might solve the problem, but though it reduced the template size
a
> > > > little, it did not alter the problem with saving new code.  I don't
know
> > > if
> > > > this says that "bloat" is not the problem.  And if bloat was the
> > problem,
> > > > why does exporting new code (which can be quite a small macro) and
> > > > re-importing it later solve the problem.  The "bloat" is going to be
> > > largely
> > > > unchanged.
> > > > Very frustrating!
> > > > I've never had the code freeze during use or in any other situation,
but
> > > > none of my code changes the templates and this could be why.

> > > > Regards,
> > > > Brett



> > > > > Without beeing a professional developer, I've for years spent
quite a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > time in the VBA editor. Now and then I've been trapped in strange
> > > > situations
> > > > > where the whole "thing" locks itself up in one or the other way.
An
> > > > example
> > > > > is that Word emits a false Disk Full -alert when I try to save
edited
> > > > code.

> > > > > While doing fruitless attemps to understand these situations, I've
> > tried
> > > > > different ways to work around the problems. By accident I've found
> > that
> > > > > this, and even other lock-up situations, can be solved by
exporting,
> > > > > removing and re-importing the code of a project. Don't ask me why
> > these
> > > > > measures cure the situation - but for me they relly have!

> > > > > It should be interesting to know if more people have similar
> > experiences
> > > > and
> > > > > even an explanation.

> > > > > Regards
> > > > > BosseH



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:26:19 GMT  
 A way to master tricky situations...

Dear BosseH
"Bloat".
I think more in images - puffer fish that blow themselves up to appear
bigger, the scene from Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" when a man in a
restaurant eats and eats and eats, then the waiter tempts him with a little
{*filter*}bit at the end, and he is so "bloated" he explodes on swallowing

Or the usual state of government budgets!

I just wish my work project wouldn't bloat.  It sounds like moving up to
word 2000 will not solve my problem either (from your experience and the
link Jay suggested), so it will have to be XP.

I think the Payne program is worth using - I'm using McAfee VirusScan and it
did not detect any problems.

Best wishes,
Brett



Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:50:50 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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