When vbCr and when vbCrLf? 
Author Message
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?

I've been trying to find somewhere in the VB Help that might explain when to
use vbCr and when to use vbCrLf in Code, but can't find anywhere in either
the Core VBA Help or the Word VBA Help that explains it.

Coming from the Macintosh (which uses only the carriage return equivalent to
vbCr or Chr(13) in all cases), I rather expected that it would all be vbCrLf
all the time. But I've found that in fact vbCr is what's expected in literal
strings in Code most (?) of the time.

Is there any simple rule of thumb, or somewhere detailing any more
complicated  rules?

--
Paul Berkowitz



Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:28:06 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
The origins are from "good old DOS", being abbreviations for resp.
Carriage Return and Line Feed. Just pay attention to the fact that Word
texts usually are stored in very long lines without Lf.

--
Regards
pre

Quote:
> I've been trying to find somewhere in the VB Help that might explain
when to
> use vbCr and when to use vbCrLf in Code, but can't find anywhere in
either
> the Core VBA Help or the Word VBA Help that explains it.

> Coming from the Macintosh (which uses only the carriage return
equivalent to
> vbCr or Chr(13) in all cases), I rather expected that it would all be
vbCrLf
> all the time. But I've found that in fact vbCr is what's expected in
literal
> strings in Code most (?) of the time.

> Is there any simple rule of thumb, or somewhere detailing any more
> complicated  rules?

> --
> Paul Berkowitz



Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:43:11 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Thanks Per. Actually, I know what vbCr and vbCrLf are. And I know that Word
documents soft-wrap without returns  within paragraphs. I'm just curious as
to why most of the VBA Word code that I see quoted in the Help examples,
etc. where you _DO_ want to indicate starting a new line (say in addresses
for mail merges, for example) ask for vbCr (carriage return) _without_ the
LF line feed. I expect this on my Mac, and would do that anyway, so perhaps
the Help has already been adapted for Mac usage. But it seems to me that I
thought i had seen the same thing here for Windows VBA and am wondering why.
Perhaps I was wrong. What I'm asking, in effect, is "Does the VB Editor only
want vbCr carriage returns without the LF line feeds, unlike regular text
files?"

I'll check my Windows version of Word to make sure that it says the same
thing before I write again. Perhaps I'm asking about something that isn't
even true. (If so, sorry for confusing things.)

--
Paul Berkowitz


Quote:

> The origins are from "good old DOS", being abbreviations for resp.
> Carriage Return and Line Feed. Just pay attention to the fact that Word
> texts usually are stored in very long lines without Lf.

> --
> Regards
> pre


>> I've been trying to find somewhere in the VB Help that might explain
> when to
>> use vbCr and when to use vbCrLf in Code, but can't find anywhere in
> either
>> the Core VBA Help or the Word VBA Help that explains it.

>> Coming from the Macintosh (which uses only the carriage return
> equivalent to
>> vbCr or Chr(13) in all cases), I rather expected that it would all be
> vbCrLf
>> all the time. But I've found that in fact vbCr is what's expected in
> literal
>> strings in Code most (?) of the time.

>> Is there any simple rule of thumb, or somewhere detailing any more
>> complicated  rules?

>> --
>> Paul Berkowitz



Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:07:01 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
For example,  in ibby's help to Vikram, in the thread "new line", just a few
messages earlier, (s)he included this bit of code:

For i = LBound(myArray) To UBound(myArray)
    strTemp = strTemp & myArray(i) & vbCr
Next i

Why ' & vbCr', not ' & vbCrLf' ? How do you know when to use which?

--
Paul Berkowitz


Quote:

> Thanks Per. Actually, I know what vbCr and vbCrLf are. And I know that Word
> documents soft-wrap without returns  within paragraphs. I'm just curious as
> to why most of the VBA Word code that I see quoted in the Help examples,
> etc. where you _DO_ want to indicate starting a new line (say in addresses
> for mail merges, for example) ask for vbCr (carriage return) _without_ the
> LF line feed. I expect this on my Mac, and would do that anyway, so perhaps
> the Help has already been adapted for Mac usage. But it seems to me that I
> thought i had seen the same thing here for Windows VBA and am wondering why.
> Perhaps I was wrong. What I'm asking, in effect, is "Does the VB Editor only
> want vbCr carriage returns without the LF line feeds, unlike regular text
> files?"

> I'll check my Windows version of Word to make sure that it says the same
> thing before I write again. Perhaps I'm asking about something that isn't
> even true. (If so, sorry for confusing things.)

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP Entourage/Outlook Express Mac


Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:44:20 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?

Quote:

> For example,  in ibby's help to Vikram, in the thread "new line", just a few
> messages earlier, (s)he included this bit of code:

> For i = LBound(myArray) To UBound(myArray)
>   strTemp = strTemp & myArray(i) & vbCr
> Next i

> Why ' & vbCr', not ' & vbCrLf' ? How do you know when to use which?

I'm beginning to suspect that although .TXT files on Windows use CRLF, Word
documents actually use just CR for line endings? That would explain both the
above, and also maybe part of how Word documents open cross-platform so
easily.

I've switched on "Show All Formatting" in Options in my Windows version of
Word 2000, and I don't see any mark at the beginning of paragraphs, just the
paragraph mark ? (which is the CR representation) at the end of lines.

So perhaps you only need CRLF when dealing with .TXT files, and never within
Word? It's odd that I don't seem to be able to find this in the Help
anywhere.

--
Paul Berkowitz



Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:46:13 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Hi Paul

Answers inline


Quote:


> > For example,  in ibby's help to Vikram, in the thread "new line", just a
few
> > messages earlier, (s)he included this bit of code:

> > For i = LBound(myArray) To UBound(myArray)
> >   strTemp = strTemp & myArray(i) & vbCr
> > Next i

> > Why ' & vbCr', not ' & vbCrLf' ? How do you know when to use which?

> I'm beginning to suspect that although .TXT files on Windows use CRLF,
Word
> documents actually use just CR for line endings?

That's right. Easily confirmed by selecting a paragraph mark in a document,
and then moving to the VBA editor and typing "Print Len(Selection.Text)" in
the immediate window. This confirms that the paragraph mark is a single
character. Typing "Print Asc(Selection.Text)" confirms that the character is
a CR (code 13)

Quote:
> That would explain both the
> above, and also maybe part of how Word documents open cross-platform so
> easily.

That's part of it.

Quote:

> I've switched on "Show All Formatting" in Options in my Windows version of
> Word 2000, and I don't see any mark at the beginning of paragraphs, just
the
> paragraph mark ? (which is the CR representation) at the end of lines.

That's exactly right

Quote:

> So perhaps you only need CRLF when dealing with .TXT files, and never
within
> Word?

DOS/Windows text files have the CFLF combination at the end of each line,
Word know about this, and so when such a file is imported to Word, it
converts the CRLF combination into a paragraph mark. When a file is saved as
text, paragraph marks are converted back to CRLF character pairs.

Quote:
> It's odd that I don't seem to be able to find this in the Help
> anywhere.

Probably because the help authors assumed that few people would want to use
Word to play with text files.

--
Regards
Jonathan West - Word MVP
MultiLinker - Automated generation of hyperlinks in Word
Conversion to PDF & HTML
http://www.multilinker.com
Word FAQs at http://www.multilinker.com/wordfaq
Please post any follow-up in the newsgroup. I do not reply to Word questions
by email



Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:41:17 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?

Thanks so much for the confirmation and explanation, Jonathan. It will make
some cross-platform scripts a lot easier.

--
Paul Berkowitz


Quote:



>>> Why ' & vbCr', not ' & vbCrLf' ? How do you know when to use which?

>> I'm beginning to suspect that although .TXT files on Windows use CRLF,
>> Word
>> documents actually use just CR for line endings?

> That's right. Easily confirmed by selecting a paragraph mark in a document,
> and then moving to the VBA editor and typing "Print Len(Selection.Text)" in
> the immediate window. This confirms that the paragraph mark is a single
> character. Typing "Print Asc(Selection.Text)" confirms that the character is
> a CR (code 13)

The clincher. Thanks.
Quote:
>> That would explain both the
>> above, and also maybe part of how Word documents open cross-platform so
>> easily.

> That's part of it.

>> I've switched on "Show All Formatting" in Options in my Windows version of
>> Word 2000, and I don't see any mark at the beginning of paragraphs, just
> the
>> paragraph mark ? (which is the CR representation) at the end of lines.

> That's exactly right

>> So perhaps you only need CRLF when dealing with .TXT files, and never
> within
>> Word?

> DOS/Windows text files have the CFLF combination at the end of each line,
> Word know about this, and so when such a file is imported to Word, it
> converts the CRLF combination into a paragraph mark. When a file is saved as
> text, paragraph marks are converted back to CRLF character pairs.

>> It's odd that I don't seem to be able to find this in the Help
>> anywhere.

> Probably because the help authors assumed that few people would want to use
> Word to play with text files.



Fri, 05 Sep 2003 01:18:39 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Speaking of cross platform.

What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

..\..\UpTheLadder

What would be the Mac equivalent?

--
Please post your response to the newsgroup.

http://www.standards.com/ipusers/standards; Word macros, including
converting from WordBasic to VBA; Technical writing and reviewing; Standards
------------------------------------------------

Quote:

> Thanks so much for the confirmation and explanation, Jonathan. It will
make
> some cross-platform scripts a lot easier.

> --
> Paul Berkowitz


West"



> >>> Why ' & vbCr', not ' & vbCrLf' ? How do you know when to use which?

> >> I'm beginning to suspect that although .TXT files on Windows use CRLF,
> >> Word
> >> documents actually use just CR for line endings?

> > That's right. Easily confirmed by selecting a paragraph mark in a
document,
> > and then moving to the VBA editor and typing "Print Len(Selection.Text)"
in
> > the immediate window. This confirms that the paragraph mark is a single
> > character. Typing "Print Asc(Selection.Text)" confirms that the
character is
> > a CR (code 13)

> The clincher. Thanks.

> >> That would explain both the
> >> above, and also maybe part of how Word documents open cross-platform so
> >> easily.

> > That's part of it.

> >> I've switched on "Show All Formatting" in Options in my Windows version
of
> >> Word 2000, and I don't see any mark at the beginning of paragraphs,
just
> > the
> >> paragraph mark ? (which is the CR representation) at the end of lines.

> > That's exactly right

> >> So perhaps you only need CRLF when dealing with .TXT files, and never
> > within
> >> Word?

> > DOS/Windows text files have the CFLF combination at the end of each
line,
> > Word know about this, and so when such a file is imported to Word, it
> > converts the CRLF combination into a paragraph mark. When a file is
saved as
> > text, paragraph marks are converted back to CRLF character pairs.

> >> It's odd that I don't seem to be able to find this in the Help
> >> anywhere.

> > Probably because the help authors assumed that few people would want to
use
> > Word to play with text files.



Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:45:17 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?

Quote:

> Speaking of cross platform.

> What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

> In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

> ..\..\UpTheLadder

> What would be the Mac equivalent?

I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "relative", but it looks as if
you're talking about full file-paths. On the Mac we use the colon :

    "My Hard Disk:Some Folder:Some SubFolder:A File Name"

There is no equivalent to the "c\", "d\" drive nomenclature. You just begin
with the name of the disk, whether startup disk or other. The same path name
format with colons is used both in VBA (both Word and Excel for Mac have
their full VBA Object Models as in Windows, tweaked where necessary as in
this situation) and also in AppleScript (which can be called from within VBA
via the Function MacScript). AppleScript differentiates between the file
path "as string", as above, and the representation of the actual file
itself, where the string path is preceded by the term 'alias' or 'file' (not
in quotes). VBA just uses the string to represent the file, as in Windows.

So you can't include colons in Mac file-names. (In certain circumstances, if
you try you'll hit an error, but in most circumstances the Mac's "Finder" -
the desktop application) will silently coerce a colon to a hyphen "-". From
next week, when Mac OS X, which is really BSD Unix, arrives, forward slashes
"/" (used in Unix directory paths) will also not be permitted in filenames.
I'm not sure if there will be alternate ways of referring to full paths (as
I expect) or whether forward slashes will reign on the OS X partition and
colons on the "classic" (OS 9) partition which every computer running OS X
will also have. I expect colons will still work on both sides, but ask me
again in two weeks' time!

--
Paul Berkowitz



Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:50:17 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Unix does have  . a .. for use with relative pathnames.
As I recall, so does Posix.
--
Please post your response to the newsgroup.

http://www.standards.com/ipusers/standards; Word macros, including
converting from WordBasic to VBA; Technical writing and reviewing; Standards
------------------------------------------------

Quote:


> > Speaking of cross platform.

> > What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

> > In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

> > ..\..\UpTheLadder

> > What would be the Mac equivalent?

> I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "relative", but it looks as if
> you're talking about full file-paths. On the Mac we use the colon :

>     "My Hard Disk:Some Folder:Some SubFolder:A File Name"

> There is no equivalent to the "c\", "d\" drive nomenclature. You just
begin
> with the name of the disk, whether startup disk or other. The same path
name
> format with colons is used both in VBA (both Word and Excel for Mac have
> their full VBA Object Models as in Windows, tweaked where necessary as in
> this situation) and also in AppleScript (which can be called from within
VBA
> via the Function MacScript). AppleScript differentiates between the file
> path "as string", as above, and the representation of the actual file
> itself, where the string path is preceded by the term 'alias' or 'file'
(not
> in quotes). VBA just uses the string to represent the file, as in Windows.

> So you can't include colons in Mac file-names. (In certain circumstances,
if
> you try you'll hit an error, but in most circumstances the Mac's
"Finder" -
> the desktop application) will silently coerce a colon to a hyphen "-".
From
> next week, when Mac OS X, which is really BSD Unix, arrives, forward
slashes
> "/" (used in Unix directory paths) will also not be permitted in
filenames.
> I'm not sure if there will be alternate ways of referring to full paths
(as
> I expect) or whether forward slashes will reign on the OS X partition and
> colons on the "classic" (OS 9) partition which every computer running OS X
> will also have. I expect colons will still work on both sides, but ask me
> again in two weeks' time!

> --
> Paul Berkowitz



Sat, 06 Sep 2003 02:28:49 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Hi Paul,

Relative paths indicate a path relative to the location of the active
document.

..\..\directoryname\filename.doc indicates two folders up from the folder
holding the active document then down into the directoryname folder to find
the document filename.doc.
..\ means one directory level up (the parent directory or folder)
.\ means the current directory or folder (but doesn't seem to be needed for
relative paths within Word).
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
http://www.addbalance.com/word

Legal Users' Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented)
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


Quote:


> > Speaking of cross platform.

> > What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

> > In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

> > ..\..\UpTheLadder

> > What would be the Mac equivalent?

> I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "relative", but it looks as if
> you're talking about full file-paths. On the Mac we use the colon :

>     "My Hard Disk:Some Folder:Some SubFolder:A File Name"

> There is no equivalent to the "c\", "d\" drive nomenclature. You just
begin
> with the name of the disk, whether startup disk or other. The same path
name
> format with colons is used both in VBA (both Word and Excel for Mac have
> their full VBA Object Models as in Windows, tweaked where necessary as in
> this situation) and also in AppleScript (which can be called from within
VBA
> via the Function MacScript). AppleScript differentiates between the file
> path "as string", as above, and the representation of the actual file
> itself, where the string path is preceded by the term 'alias' or 'file'
(not
> in quotes). VBA just uses the string to represent the file, as in Windows.

> So you can't include colons in Mac file-names. (In certain circumstances,
if
> you try you'll hit an error, but in most circumstances the Mac's
"Finder" -
> the desktop application) will silently coerce a colon to a hyphen "-".
From
> next week, when Mac OS X, which is really BSD Unix, arrives, forward
slashes
> "/" (used in Unix directory paths) will also not be permitted in
filenames.
> I'm not sure if there will be alternate ways of referring to full paths
(as
> I expect) or whether forward slashes will reign on the OS X partition and
> colons on the "classic" (OS 9) partition which every computer running OS X
> will also have. I expect colons will still work on both sides, but ask me
> again in two weeks' time!

> --
> Paul Berkowitz



Sat, 06 Sep 2003 06:54:53 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Someday when you're bored, try shelling to DOS making a really deep subdirectory
nest and try doing:

cd ...
cd ....
cd .....

etc.

I use win98 and it reacts just the way you would have hoped.  (I believe ... was
added in win95.)

Quote:

> Hi Paul,

> Relative paths indicate a path relative to the location of the active
> document.

> ..\..\directoryname\filename.doc indicates two folders up from the folder
> holding the active document then down into the directoryname folder to find
> the document filename.doc.
> ..\ means one directory level up (the parent directory or folder)
> .\ means the current directory or folder (but doesn't seem to be needed for
> relative paths within Word).
> --
> Charles Kenyon

> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
> http://www.addbalance.com/word

> Legal Users' Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented)
> http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide
>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.





> > > Speaking of cross platform.

> > > What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

> > > In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

> > > ..\..\UpTheLadder

> > > What would be the Mac equivalent?

> > I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "relative", but it looks as if
> > you're talking about full file-paths. On the Mac we use the colon :

> >     "My Hard Disk:Some Folder:Some SubFolder:A File Name"

> > There is no equivalent to the "c\", "d\" drive nomenclature. You just
> begin
> > with the name of the disk, whether startup disk or other. The same path
> name
> > format with colons is used both in VBA (both Word and Excel for Mac have
> > their full VBA Object Models as in Windows, tweaked where necessary as in
> > this situation) and also in AppleScript (which can be called from within
> VBA
> > via the Function MacScript). AppleScript differentiates between the file
> > path "as string", as above, and the representation of the actual file
> > itself, where the string path is preceded by the term 'alias' or 'file'
> (not
> > in quotes). VBA just uses the string to represent the file, as in Windows.

> > So you can't include colons in Mac file-names. (In certain circumstances,
> if
> > you try you'll hit an error, but in most circumstances the Mac's
> "Finder" -
> > the desktop application) will silently coerce a colon to a hyphen "-".
> From
> > next week, when Mac OS X, which is really BSD Unix, arrives, forward
> slashes
> > "/" (used in Unix directory paths) will also not be permitted in
> filenames.
> > I'm not sure if there will be alternate ways of referring to full paths
> (as
> > I expect) or whether forward slashes will reign on the OS X partition and
> > colons on the "classic" (OS 9) partition which every computer running OS X
> > will also have. I expect colons will still work on both sides, but ask me
> > again in two weeks' time!

> > --
> > Paul Berkowitz

--

Dave Peterson



Sat, 06 Sep 2003 07:38:50 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?
Hi, Charles

Thanks. Now I get it. In that case, we don't have relative paths on the Mac
Classic (although it looks as if we might get them for Mac OS X). In
AppleScript, however, there are clever things you can do to get the same
thing, but it takes 2 or 3 lines of code to extract it.

--
Paul Berkowitz


Quote:

> Hi Paul,

> Relative paths indicate a path relative to the location of the active
> document.

> ..\..\directoryname\filename.doc indicates two folders up from the folder
> holding the active document then down into the directoryname folder to find
> the document filename.doc.
> ..\ means one directory level up (the parent directory or folder)
> .\ means the current directory or folder (but doesn't seem to be needed for
> relative paths within Word).
> --
> Charles Kenyon

> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
> http://www.addbalance.com/word

> Legal Users' Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented)
> http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide
> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.





>>> Speaking of cross platform.

>>> What's does the Mac use for relative paths?

>>> In Win, we can use URL like paths such as

>>> ..\..\UpTheLadder

>>> What would be the Mac equivalent?

>> I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "relative", but it looks as if
>> you're talking about full file-paths. On the Mac we use the colon :

>>     "My Hard Disk:Some Folder:Some SubFolder:A File Name"

>> There is no equivalent to the "c\", "d\" drive nomenclature. You just
> begin
>> with the name of the disk, whether startup disk or other. The same path
> name
>> format with colons is used both in VBA (both Word and Excel for Mac have
>> their full VBA Object Models as in Windows, tweaked where necessary as in
>> this situation) and also in AppleScript (which can be called from within
> VBA
>> via the Function MacScript). AppleScript differentiates between the file
>> path "as string", as above, and the representation of the actual file
>> itself, where the string path is preceded by the term 'alias' or 'file'
> (not
>> in quotes). VBA just uses the string to represent the file, as in Windows.

>> So you can't include colons in Mac file-names. (In certain circumstances,
> if
>> you try you'll hit an error, but in most circumstances the Mac's
> "Finder" -
>> the desktop application) will silently coerce a colon to a hyphen "-".
> From
>> next week, when Mac OS X, which is really BSD Unix, arrives, forward
> slashes
>> "/" (used in Unix directory paths) will also not be permitted in
> filenames.
>> I'm not sure if there will be alternate ways of referring to full paths
> (as
>> I expect) or whether forward slashes will reign on the OS X partition and
>> colons on the "classic" (OS 9) partition which every computer running OS X
>> will also have. I expect colons will still work on both sides, but ask me
>> again in two weeks' time!

>> --
>> Paul Berkowitz



Sat, 06 Sep 2003 12:46:53 GMT  
 When vbCr and when vbCrLf?

Quote:

> Hi Paul,

> Relative paths indicate a path relative to the location of the active
> document.

> ..\..\directoryname\filename.doc indicates two folders up from the folder
> holding the active document then down into the directoryname folder to find
> the document filename.doc.
> ..\ means one directory level up (the parent directory or folder)
> .\ means the current directory or folder (but doesn't seem to be needed for
> relative paths within Word).

Actually, now that I think about it, there is something very analogous in
AppleScript:

    alias ":"

gets you the container (i.e. the directory of) the current application. So
if an applescript is running as a self-standing "applet", that gets you its
folder. If the script is running in Microsoft Entourage, say, that gets you
Entourage's folder.

    alias "::"

gets you that folder's folder.

So

    alias ((alias "::" as string) & "directoryname:filename.doc")

will get you two folders up from the folder holding the active application
(say, Word) then down into the directoryname folder to find the document
filename.doc.

To get this sort of relation for a document, rather than an application,
from a VB Macro embedded in a Word doc, would be trickier, but could be
done. You'd start out with the FullName, or, better, Path property of the
document, then do a MacScript function to get the related filepath of
another document in a related folder. But you couldn't use the shortcuts
above: there's another way in AppleScript to "go back" towards the root then
add the colons and intervening directories and other file name.

--
Paul Berkowitz



Sat, 06 Sep 2003 13:08:30 GMT  
 
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