Is there a better product out there? 
Author Message
 Is there a better product out there?

Hi.

I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
to care) about quality.

Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

Thank you.

Regards,
  Doug Lojewski



Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
"Better" in what sense?  How about Oracle?
Quote:

> Hi.

> I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
> the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
> better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
> have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
> me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
> "challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
> good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

> Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
> Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
> town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
> never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
> at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
> to care) about quality.

> Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
> REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

> Thank you.

> Regards,
>   Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Why don't you start by describing why it is that Access can't meet your
needs.  If you don't know what other db's are out there, you're going to
have a hard time convincing me you're really in any position to make an
accurate assessment of Access's capabilities and limitations.  No, Access is
not a silver bullet, but it is powerful and robust.  Depending on what your
requirements are, it may or may not meet your needs.  But please don't just
dismiss it without at least educating yourself about it.

Bob

Quote:

>Hi.

>I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
>the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
>better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

>I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
>have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
>me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
>"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
>good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

>Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
>Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
>town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
>about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

>I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
>never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
>at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
>to care) about quality.

>Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
>REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

>Thank you.

>Regards,
>  Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
By "better" I mean more dependable, a better API (more straight
forward), maybe more rowbust.

Is there a version of Oracle for Windows?

Thanks.

 - Doug

Quote:

> "Better" in what sense?  How about Oracle?


> > Hi.

> > I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
> > the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
> > better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> > I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
> > have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
> > me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
> > "challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
> > good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

> > Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
> > Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
> > town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> > about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> > I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
> > never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
> > at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
> > to care) about quality.

> > Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
> > REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

> > Thank you.

> > Regards,
> >   Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Hi Doug
What is it that you can't do?
Patrick



Quote:
>Hi.

>I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
>the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
>better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

>I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
>have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
>me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
>"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
>good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

>Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
>Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
>town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
>about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

>I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
>never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
>at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
>to care) about quality.

>Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
>REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

>Thank you.

>Regards,
>  Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Well if you want a product for Windows (as you say you do), you can't have a
different API - it's the Windows API.

More "rowbust" does that mean it has more rows?

Yes I am on your case, because you post to Access newsgroups looking for a
better product than Access; because you can't even come close to defining
what "better" is to you (even barring the spelling problems your reply
doesn't make sense - what would be the difference between 'robust' and
'dependable'?); and yes, it's probably you if you can't make good quality
production applications with Access.

Maybe Access isn't everything to everyone, and I'd maintain no product could
be, but you can certainly (well I can anyway) create dependable, useful
applications with Access.

I've no particular loyalty to MS; if something better came along tomorrow
and could be found on the desks of paying clients, I'd be at Amazon.com
buying the books on how to use it.  Then again, I'm pretty much a mercenary,
I do this work because I can make a living while working in a way I want to,
not because I have a deep interest in databases.  I don't sit and fantasize
about what an ideal db program would be like because it doesn't much matter
and I can think of way better fantasies.

Go into developing desktop databases if you feel strongly about this; but if
you want to develop apps with exisitng tools learn the ones that exist, make
your choice and get to work.

Keri Hardwick

Quote:

>By "better" I mean more dependable, a better API (more straight
>forward), maybe more rowbust.

>Is there a version of Oracle for Windows?

>Thanks.

> - Doug


>> "Better" in what sense?  How about Oracle?


>> > Hi.

>> > I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
>> > the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
>> > better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

>> > I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
>> > have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
>> > me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm
too
>> > "challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
>> > good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my
thinking?

>> > Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy
of
>> > Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
>> > town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
>> > about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

>> > I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry
may
>> > never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we
are
>> > at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
>> > to care) about quality.

>> > Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
>> > REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to
me).

>> > Thank you.

>> > Regards,
>> >   Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Bob,

Thanks for your reply.

I feel that I have "educated" myself enough to realize that I can not
fully rely on (at the Very least):

  - The API for managing forms (i.e.., the acSavePrompt argument of
DoCmd.Close
    has no function that I can see)

  - The Requery function. It  is unpredictable.

  - Working with form properties from within Visual Basic. It is a
puzzle.

  - The GUI for form design. It is in some ways a joke (i.e.., sizing a
window)

  - Forget about looking at a help screen while trying to write Visual
Basic code.

  - Search capabilities. I would not expect my end user to use Access's
built in      search stuff. I will write my own, thank you.

  - Switchboards. Why did Microsoft even bother? If you've really tried
to
    incorporate them into a good finished product, you know what I mean.

  - Menu management. This should not be rocket science. I guess
Microsoft thinks
    it is.

These are only a couple of things. Overall, I don't feel that I can
depend on MS Access. After you've developed software for a while, you
will realize that these things like this are really not acceptable.

Quote:

> Why don't you start by describing why it is that Access can't meet your
> needs.  If you don't know what other db's are out there, you're going to
> have a hard time convincing me you're really in any position to make an
> accurate assessment of Access's capabilities and limitations.  No, Access is
> not a silver bullet, but it is powerful and robust.  Depending on what your
> requirements are, it may or may not meet your needs.  But please don't just
> dismiss it without at least educating yourself about it.

> Bob


> >Hi.

> >I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
> >the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
> >better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> >I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
> >have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
> >me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
> >"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
> >good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

> >Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
> >Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
> >town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> >about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> >I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
> >never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
> >at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
> >to care) about quality.

> >Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
> >REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

> >Thank you.

> >Regards,
> >  Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Keri,

It can never hurt to explore new possibilities, instead of accepting the
status quo. I think your customers can appreciate that.

I'm sorry about my "rowbust" typo. When people dwell on stuff like that,
it makes me wonder if they have self esteem issues. It's OK. I know
you're smart. Any how, to me robust means more flexible.

 - Doug

Quote:

> Well if you want a product for Windows (as you say you do), you can't have a
> different API - it's the Windows API.

> More "rowbust" does that mean it has more rows?

> Yes I am on your case, because you post to Access newsgroups looking for a
> better product than Access; because you can't even come close to defining
> what "better" is to you (even barring the spelling problems your reply
> doesn't make sense - what would be the difference between 'robust' and
> 'dependable'?); and yes, it's probably you if you can't make good quality
> production applications with Access.

> Maybe Access isn't everything to everyone, and I'd maintain no product could
> be, but you can certainly (well I can anyway) create dependable, useful
> applications with Access.

> I've no particular loyalty to MS; if something better came along tomorrow
> and could be found on the desks of paying clients, I'd be at Amazon.com
> buying the books on how to use it.  Then again, I'm pretty much a mercenary,
> I do this work because I can make a living while working in a way I want to,
> not because I have a deep interest in databases.  I don't sit and fantasize
> about what an ideal db program would be like because it doesn't much matter
> and I can think of way better fantasies.

> Go into developing desktop databases if you feel strongly about this; but if
> you want to develop apps with exisitng tools learn the ones that exist, make
> your choice and get to work.

> Keri Hardwick

> >By "better" I mean more dependable, a better API (more straight
> >forward), maybe more rowbust.

> >Is there a version of Oracle for Windows?

> >Thanks.

> > - Doug


> >> "Better" in what sense?  How about Oracle?


> >> > Hi.

> >> > I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
> >> > the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
> >> > better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> >> > I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
> >> > have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
> >> > me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm
> too
> >> > "challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
> >> > good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my
> thinking?

> >> > Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy
> of
> >> > Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
> >> > town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> >> > about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> >> > I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry
> may
> >> > never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we
> are
> >> > at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
> >> > to care) about quality.

> >> > Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
> >> > REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to
> me).

> >> > Thank you.

> >> > Regards,
> >> >   Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?


Quote:
>Hi.

>I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
>the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
>better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

ORACLE has a lot of advocates, and is now available for Windows. IME
it's a lot more work to develop and use, but you get very stable and
efficient databases.


Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?


Quote:
> Bob,

> Thanks for your reply.

> I feel that I have "educated" myself enough to realize that I can not
> fully rely on (at the Very least):

>   - The API for managing forms (i.e.., the acSavePrompt argument of
> DoCmd.Close
>     has no function that I can see)

It does what it is supposed to do.

Quote:

>   - The Requery function. It  is unpredictable.

Can you document this? I've never had a problem.

Quote:
>   - Working with form properties from within Visual Basic. It is a
> puzzle.

>   - The GUI for form design. It is in some ways a joke (i.e.., sizing a
> window)

GUI sizing of most objects in most GUI systems involves clicking on an edge
and dragging. Where is the problem.

Quote:

>   - Forget about looking at a help screen while trying to write Visual
> Basic code.

Cut and paste and function completion goes a long way towards solving this
minor problem and 2000 has a better approach. The solution for ANY product
is a larger monitor.
A 21 inch monitor in 1280x1024 makes things nice. Two are better.
If you have to choose between upgrading to a 21 inch monitor or a new
computer with twice the processor speed, you will be more productive as a
developer with the monitor.
Quote:

>   - Search capabilities. I would not expect my end user to use Access's
> built in      search stuff. I will write my own, thank you.

This does a great disservice to your end users. The capabilities are quite
good for many applications and reduces the end users reliance on you. I have
a close relation with many of my clients and showing them how to use those
tools was part of getting that closeness.
When I tell them to let me do it they know there is not an easy solution.

Quote:

>   - Switchboards. Why did Microsoft even bother? If you've really tried
> to
>     incorporate them into a good finished product, you know what I mean.

>   - Menu management. This should not be rocket science. I guess
> Microsoft thinks
>     it is.

MSFT does or you do?

Quote:

> These are only a couple of things. Overall, I don't feel that I can
> depend on MS Access. After you've developed software for a while, you
> will realize that these things like this are really not acceptable.

I started playing with computers in 1961 and with developing software for
micro's in 1978. I find Access quite acceptable, even though there are many
features I'd like to see.

Quote:


> > Why don't you start by describing why it is that Access can't meet your
> > needs.  If you don't know what other db's are out there, you're going to
> > have a hard time convincing me you're really in any position to make an
> > accurate assessment of Access's capabilities and limitations.  No,
Access is
> > not a silver bullet, but it is powerful and robust.  Depending on what
your
> > requirements are, it may or may not meet your needs.  But please don't
just
> > dismiss it without at least educating yourself about it.

> > Bob


> > >Hi.

> > >I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
> > >the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
> > >better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> > >I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
> > >have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
> > >me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm
too
> > >"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
> > >good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my
thinking?

> > >Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy
of
> > >Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
> > >town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> > >about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> > >I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry
may
> > >never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we
are
> > >at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
> > >to care) about quality.

> > >Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
> > >REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to
me).

> > >Thank you.

> > >Regards,
> > >  Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Windows? A better product for Windows, you say. Well, Dougie, baby, why do
you want to be limited to Windows? It's a Microsoft product; brought to you
by the anti-christ.

Yes Doug, there is a better product, it's called assembler language. I
suggest you learn it and quit trolling every newsgroup the the word Access
in its name.

Please don't worry about pissing us off Doug, most of us take the likes of
you with a grain of salt.
---
Arvin Meyer

Quote:

>Hi.

>I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill Gates is
>the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is there a
>better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

>I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts. I
>have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have helped
>me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe I'm too
>"challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can produce
>good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my thinking?

>Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the mercy of
>Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only game in
>town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
>about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

>I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
>never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
>at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
>to care) about quality.

>Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I would
>REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to me).

>Thank you.

>Regards,
>  Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Please work on your definitions., robust does NOT mean flexible by any
means.

I agree with Keri that I doubt you could produce anything of value in
Access. But many others can, and do.

--
MichKa

-------------------------------------
random junk of dubious value is at:
http://www.*-*-*.com/


Quote:
> Keri,

> It can never hurt to explore new possibilities, instead of accepting the
> status quo. I think your customers can appreciate that.

> I'm sorry about my "rowbust" typo. When people dwell on stuff like that,
> it makes me wonder if they have self esteem issues. It's OK. I know
> you're smart. Any how, to me robust means more flexible.

>  - Doug


> > Well if you want a product for Windows (as you say you do), you can't
have a
> > different API - it's the Windows API.

> > More "rowbust" does that mean it has more rows?

> > Yes I am on your case, because you post to Access newsgroups looking for
a
> > better product than Access; because you can't even come close to
defining
> > what "better" is to you (even barring the spelling problems your reply
> > doesn't make sense - what would be the difference between 'robust' and
> > 'dependable'?); and yes, it's probably you if you can't make good
quality
> > production applications with Access.

> > Maybe Access isn't everything to everyone, and I'd maintain no product
could
> > be, but you can certainly (well I can anyway) create dependable, useful
> > applications with Access.

> > I've no particular loyalty to MS; if something better came along
tomorrow
> > and could be found on the desks of paying clients, I'd be at Amazon.com
> > buying the books on how to use it.  Then again, I'm pretty much a
mercenary,
> > I do this work because I can make a living while working in a way I want
to,
> > not because I have a deep interest in databases.  I don't sit and
fantasize
> > about what an ideal db program would be like because it doesn't much
matter
> > and I can think of way better fantasies.

> > Go into developing desktop databases if you feel strongly about this;
but if
> > you want to develop apps with exisitng tools learn the ones that exist,
make
> > your choice and get to work.

> > Keri Hardwick

> > >By "better" I mean more dependable, a better API (more straight
> > >forward), maybe more rowbust.

> > >Is there a version of Oracle for Windows?

> > >Thanks.

> > > - Doug


> > >> "Better" in what sense?  How about Oracle?


> > >> > Hi.

> > >> > I know I'm going to{*filter*}off all of those folks who think Bill
Gates is
> > >> > the second coming (or first if you're not a christian), but is
there a
> > >> > better DBMS product for the Windows world on the market.

> > >> > I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend all the Access fans and experts.
I
> > >> > have very high regard for everyone on these news groups who have
helped
> > >> > me and others. My problem is with Microsoft Access itself. Maybe
I'm
> > too
> > >> > "challenged" but I truly have a hard time thinking that I can
produce
> > >> > good production quality software with Access. Am I alone in my
> > thinking?

> > >> > Is there a better product on the market? Is the industry at the
mercy
> > of
> > >> > Gates and his lackeys who simply say, "Hey, baby we're the only
game in
> > >> > town." Or to paraphrase Bill talking to Mr. Jobs, "Steve, who cares
> > >> > about quality?" Is that the state of affairs?

> > >> > I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our
industry
> > may
> > >> > never even come close to its realizing its full potential because
we
> > are
> > >> > at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not
have
> > >> > to care) about quality.

> > >> > Any how, if anybody knows of a better DBMS product for windows, I
would
> > >> > REALLY appreciate your input (that is if anybody will still talk to
> > me).

> > >> > Thank you.

> > >> > Regards,
> > >> >   Doug Lojewski




Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
Quote:
>I feel that I have "educated" myself enough to realize that I can not
>fully rely on (at the Very least):

You are never enough educated, like the question above show.

Quote:
>  - The API for managing forms (i.e.., the acSavePrompt argument of
>DoCmd.Close  has no function that I can see)

Can't fully understand give me the light on this are you talking
Windows application programming interface (API).
acSavePrompt like the name gives all the information you need, doesn't
it. It Prompt you to Save. That is if you changed the obj and want to
ask the user for a save.

Quote:
>  - The Requery function. It  is unpredictable.

It always requery for me, what is your concept of unpredictable.

Quote:
>  - Working with form properties from within Visual Basic. It is a
>puzzle.

????, do you known the property names, maybe that is the first step to
solve that puzzle.

Quote:
>  - The GUI for form design. It is in some ways a joke (i.e.., sizing a
>window)

OK, sometimes this could be some trick stuff, if you want to do it the
right way. And for that the best is using the API's functions. but
your exemple sucks even without the API you can resize a window and be
happy with it, take a look at docmd.movesize, better take a look at
the rest of the help file to.

Quote:
>  - Forget about looking at a help screen while trying to write Visual
>Basic code.

OK now i understand you never ever been to the help file you can't see
it when you are editing, and you have some kind of memory problem.
advice get a bigger monitor and a smaller resolution. And you will not
find any app that will give you a MDIchild with the help file.

Quote:
>  - Search capabilities. I would not expect my end user to use Access's
>built in      search stuff. I will write my own, thank you.

That is what programmers do, write their own code.

Quote:
>  - Switchboards. Why did Microsoft even bother? If you've really tried
>to incorporate them into a good finished product, you know what I mean.

Not again, i will not discuss this anymore, I don't even use it. But
still the switchboard works.

Quote:
>  - Menu management. This should not be rocket science. I guess
>Microsoft thinks it is.

???? again can't understand, this is perhaps one of the best
improvement from A2. Did you bother to go check the Object Model for
it.

Quote:
>These are only a couple of things. Overall, I don't feel that I can
>depend on MS Access. After you've developed software for a while, you
>will realize that these things like this are really not acceptable.

You don't even touch what MS-ACCESS can't do, I was about to say some
of them, but decided not, go figure it yourself.

Quote:
>I'm sorry for venting, but it really pisses me off that our industry may
>never even come close to its realizing its full potential because we are
>at the mercy of a company that really does not care (and does not have
>to care) about quality.

And what about you quality

In the first place if you think access is crap, why do you use it, try
something else, but don't came here asking for the right tool, did you
look at the last 9 digits of the ng "ms-access". It will tell you that
everybody here is using a {*filter*}software platform, and only knows {*filter*}
stuff, and any information that will give you is only crap.



Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Is there a better product out there?
In answer to your first question, if we thought there was a better product,
don't you think we would be using it?

Other comments interspersed.

--
Brendan Reynolds

Quote:

>Bob,

>Thanks for your reply.

>I feel that I have "educated" myself enough to realize that I can not
>fully rely on (at the Very least):

>  - The API for managing forms (i.e.., the acSavePrompt argument of
>DoCmd.Close
>    has no function that I can see)

1) What has this to do with API?
2) acSavePrompt is not an argument, it is an intrinsic constant, one of the
three possible values of the Save argument.
3) The function of the Save argument is perfectly clear. It alows you to
specify whether changes to the form should be saved automaticaly, disgarded
automatically, or whether the user should be prompted to choose. If you
can't see that, then Bob is right. You need to RTFM before spouting off.

Quote:

>  - The Requery function. It  is unpredictable.

There is a Requery action and a Requery method. There is no Requery
function. In my experience the Requery method operates as documented. Of
course, if you have paid as much attention to the documentation of the
Requery method as you have to the Close action, it will certainly be
unpredictable to you.

Quote:

>  - Working with form properties from within Visual Basic. It is a
>puzzle.

>  - The GUI for form design. It is in some ways a joke (i.e.., sizing a
>window)

The two points above are too vague to comment on. They could mean anything -
or nothing.

Quote:

>  - Forget about looking at a help screen while trying to write Visual
>Basic code.

Why would I want to forget about that?

Quote:

>  - Search capabilities. I would not expect my end user to use Access's
>built in      search stuff. I will write my own, thank you.

So? Who told you not to?

Quote:

>  - Switchboards. Why did Microsoft even bother? If you've really tried
>to
>    incorporate them into a good finished product, you know what I mean.

If you're talking about the switchboard manager add in, I consider that an
end-user feature, not taken seriously by developers. Again, so what? Who's
forcing you to use it? Access provides you with all the facilities you need
to create and manage your own switchboards or other navigation tools.

Quote:

>  - Menu management. This should not be rocket science. I guess
>Microsoft thinks
>    it is.

Again, I really don't know what this means. You can do just about anything
you want with menus in Access 97.

Quote:

>These are only a couple of things. Overall, I don't feel that I can
>depend on MS Access. After you've developed software for a while, you
>will realize that these things like this are really not acceptable.

That was an extremly condescending comment. I'm deliberatly resisting the
obvious rejoinder, because that would be equally condescending.

Yes, I am annoyed. No, that's not because I think Bill Gates is the second
coming - Bill Gates didn't write Access anyway. I am annoyed because you are
talking rubbish - your implication that anyone who thinks Access is the best
programmable RDBMS for Windows is a blind worshipper of Bill Gates is a
prime example of that. If you think we are all so blind and naive, why the
hell are you asking our opinions in the first place? If you really want to
know if other products are better, why don't you try them and judge for
yourself?



Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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